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Ira Fishman

  • Total Karma: -1
Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« on: October 15, 2018, 07:32:58 PM »
Picking up on the Evangelist thread, what course would you have a friend play to get them more interested in architecture? My hypothetical friend is an avid American golfer.


My choice would be St. George’s Hill. Why? It is quite beautiful and was in great condition even when we played it during the summer drought. Those factors would get me past the common emotional objections so that I could try to get my friend to look at green sitings and contours, variety of holes, strategic bunkering. My friend might not even notice the Par 70.


Pasatiempo would be another choice, but it is a more difficult walk.


Ira
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 07:39:11 PM by Ira Fishman »

Peter Pallotta

Re: Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2018, 08:32:46 PM »
Ira - I imagine your hypothetical friend as me. Like your friend, I have my preferences, but am fairly open minded; and, like him I've done some reading, but have rarely experienced top-flight architecture in person. So, where do I think you should take *me* to get interested in & inspired by golf course architecture? Well, this is an obvious answer, but I'd say 'take me to Pacific Dunes'.

From what I can tell, PD shares this over-riding quality/characteristic with most all of Tom's other courses: the architecture is so fundamentally sound as to be noteworthy (and praiseworthy) even for a neophyte, but it is overlaid & held together & made to meaningfully shine by the thrills and fun it engenders in the playing, and by the flair and drama of the land-forms, features and vistas that create & surround it.

In other words: it is subtle without being shy, and it is all about the architecture without being precious; and, with a neophyte, you wouldn't want to foist upon him some shy & precious work of "Architecture" and thus risk him not 'seeing' it, or wondering what your fuss is all about.

At PD, with the space and the wind and the water and the beauty and the choices and the greens, his actual *experience* of engaging with top flight architecture will be so enthralling that it will him teach him all he needs to know about top flight architecture, and, more importantly, about top-flight *golf courses* -- all without you ever having to say a word.

Then, a year or two later, maybe you can take him (or me) to The Loop.

Peter             
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 08:46:45 PM by Peter Pallotta »

John Emerson

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 01:08:06 AM »
What about a 2 day deal where you play a course that has strong architectural integrity one day, then take them to one, the very next day, that is the complete opposite?  This way you can say “ok you see this here??..can you see/realize/feel the difference?”
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Tim Gallant

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 03:43:18 AM »
Ira - I imagine your hypothetical friend as me. Like your friend, I have my preferences, but am fairly open minded; and, like him I've done some reading, but have rarely experienced top-flight architecture in person. So, where do I think you should take *me* to get interested in & inspired by golf course architecture? Well, this is an obvious answer, but I'd say 'take me to Pacific Dunes'.

From what I can tell, PD shares this over-riding quality/characteristic with most all of Tom's other courses: the architecture is so fundamentally sound as to be noteworthy (and praiseworthy) even for a neophyte, but it is overlaid & held together & made to meaningfully shine by the thrills and fun it engenders in the playing, and by the flair and drama of the land-forms, features and vistas that create & surround it.

In other words: it is subtle without being shy, and it is all about the architecture without being precious; and, with a neophyte, you wouldn't want to foist upon him some shy & precious work of "Architecture" and thus risk him not 'seeing' it, or wondering what your fuss is all about.

At PD, with the space and the wind and the water and the beauty and the choices and the greens, his actual *experience* of engaging with top flight architecture will be so enthralling that it will him teach him all he needs to know about top flight architecture, and, more importantly, about top-flight *golf courses* -- all without you ever having to say a word.

Then, a year or two later, maybe you can take him (or me) to The Loop.

Peter           


Peter,

Great choice and rationale.


I was thinking about Elie as being a wonderful course that could ease someone into the architectural realms. After a couple of holes, they will soon start to see that distance is secondary to accuracy and positioning. I would only have one stipulation of playing together: that we play foursomes golf. The reason for this is that with foursomes, they wouldn't get frustrated if they couldn't get up-and-down from 30 yards because they are out of position, but would focus their thoughts on how we could have played the hole better as a team. In my mind, it would be more fun for the friend, and they would have more time to really take in some of the course.


Catch it on a summer's evening with the sun setting, and let the course do the talking.




Tim Martin

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 07:17:23 AM »
Yale

Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2018, 09:54:32 PM »
Here is what I did with my Dad who thought that all golf courses were created equal. We played a rather plain Jane course near his home in northern Michigan. I then took him to Kingsley and Crystal Downs. I asked him what he noticed. "CD and  K are more difficult." "What about the architecture? Did you notice the difference in the greens, bunkering etc?" "Yes but I could score better on the first course."


There is an old saying, "When the pupil is ready the teacher will come." It only works when someone wants to learn. For Dad golf was just a way to get outside and hit a ball.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Dave McCollum

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2018, 03:47:35 AM »
Your Dad resembles my friends, Tommy.  I have taken them to some really good courses, and they vaguely knew they were someplace special, which I found encouraging, but I doubt it changed their world view much.  That's fine with me.  I have no interest in their hobbies, passions, politics, or other things that boil their blood.  We play golf together and poker and hang out.  That's enough.  I do my hobbies for my own reasons.     

Kyle Harris

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2018, 07:22:59 AM »
The "Dormie Club" thread seems a good place to start.  :-*
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

Colin Macqueen

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Where to Evangelize or Inspire
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2018, 07:45:01 AM »
Gentlemen,
Does anyone think we might take the Socratic route?


If so what are  seminal questions we should be asking our golfing compatriots to get them thinking about what they might not know!


I guess we ha better be up to the mark ourselves but if there are good, insightful questions we can be prepared with sensible responses. Anybody willing to throw out examples which might promote the uninterested to have their interest piqued?


Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander