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David_Tepper

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Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« on: October 11, 2018, 09:15:09 AM »
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 09:36:49 AM »
It makes sense.
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Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 09:57:44 AM »
Why wouldn't you?
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Ben Stephens

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 01:43:45 PM »
If the members grouped the money together to buy land and build a new golf course - it certainly will be a lot better than the current one. I guess some will be laughing off their arses just taking 85K for themselves.


It is ridiculous amount of money even if the AELTC bought the actual land in the 1990s and loaned it to the club until 2040. I guess past approaches have cost them dearly - which won't really matter to them as Wimbledon is huge money making event.


Wimbledon tennis areas look rather cramped and this additional land will hugely benefit the AELTC taking the event towards the mid 21st Century. They will bring the pre qualifying event from Roehampton onto the new area plus the facilities will improve more greatly.


Oh my why am I talking tennis and architecture rather than GOLF! One question is where are the potential lands for the golf club to relocate???
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David_Tepper

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 01:49:10 PM »
"One question is where are the potential lands for the golf club to relocate???"

Ben S. -

It will be interesting to see what happens. My guess is the majority of the members will take the cash and head their separate ways, joining other existing clubs in the general area.

DT
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Mark Chaplin

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 01:59:19 PM »
Local clubs will undoubtedly increase joining fees for a couple of years!
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 06:46:00 PM »
The article makes it sounds like they are only buying the front 9, and get to keep the club going as a 9 holer:


"But the delicious dilemma for all of them was an obvious one: take £85,000 each after tax and withdraw to a nine-hole course at the rear of the property:"

P.S.  Ben, thanks for answering my un-asked question about why they need the space.  From the looks of it, they've already got 2-3 stadiums and 15-20 other courts...
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 07:10:59 PM »
85k will barely buy you a parking spot in Wimbledon, so good luck, boys!
F.
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Ben Stephens

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 07:59:08 AM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on October 11, 2018, 06:46:00 PM
The article makes it sounds like they are only buying the front 9, and get to keep the club going as a 9 holer:


"But the delicious dilemma for all of them was an obvious one: take £85,000 each after tax and withdraw to a nine-hole course at the rear of the property:"

P.S.  Ben, thanks for answering my un-asked question about why they need the space.  From the looks of it, they've already got 2-3 stadiums and 15-20 other courts...


Wimbledon will have an area that will be more equivalent of Flushing Meadow or Billie Jean King Tennis Centre. It would not surprise me if they built another show court 5 to 8000 seats. This is happening at Roland Garros and Flushing Meadow even though Roland Garros is tight on space and are in the process of rebuilding the Chatrier with retractable roof so that all Grand Slam events in Tennis will then be enclosed. The current Courts 1 is around 3,000 and Court 2 is around 2,000. Boy I do miss the old Court no1 with that huge stand on one side making it lopsided.


Not sure re Roehampton and how many courts are there. I think some of the outside courts on the current site will be reconfigured and to free up more space in between courts and more land for commercial ventures and sponsors etc. It is getting very commercial like the Open.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 08:02:42 AM by Ben Stephens »
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Ben Stephens

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 08:01:36 AM »
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on October 11, 2018, 07:10:59 PM
85k will barely buy you a parking spot in Wimbledon, so good luck, boys!
F.


Thats part of the challenge Marty.


However what might be easier is to buy out another golf club and rebuild the course with the money from the sale. Like Peninsula Kingswood did in Melbourne. London Scottish seems to be the nearest course I don't know whether it is protected.
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Adam Lawrence

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 08:19:06 AM »
My friend David Langheim MG is course manager at Wimbledon Park. I was talking to him about this issue awhile ago; he was a little hacked off, because the members are in line for a big payoff, but the staff seem likely to just be let go with the minimum legal redundancy pay.


Now I'm pretty sure that David, who is one of the best greenkeepers I know, will be fine, but that won't be the case for everyone.
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Rich Goodale

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2018, 10:25:41 AM »
My eldest daughter lived in Wimbeldon a few years ago and we walked down to the Tennis courts and I blagged my way into there after lunch (finding a player on the winners board I had been thumped by (but winning a game!) many years ago......) and then walked about the Common, including the golf club.  Lovely village and area, but very much being gentrified and modernized.  C'est la vie. I very much doubt that Royal Wimbeldon GC will succumb to a similar land grab soon, but who knows, knowing the arcane land ownership (99 year leases) in England.......


Rich
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Tom Birkert

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2018, 12:06:10 PM »
Good for the members. That's a lot of money and it wasn't exactly the best course...
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Mark Chaplin

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2018, 09:42:10 AM »
Does anyone know what the “new” members accepted? Basically the club made a rule that you had to be a member for I believe 10 years to get the payout, however all members had a vote, so of course the new members voted it down and the status quo continued. There has clearly been movement within the club to give new members a share in order to get the vote through.


Adam whilst the staff are entitled to feel hacked off through jealousy (and aren’t we all!) they have no share in the ownership of the business.
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David_Tepper

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2018, 10:07:53 AM »
Mark C. -

The article clearly states all members will receive an equal share:

"After quick discussion Wimbledon Park golf club, across the road from the main gates of its famous neighbour, resolved by more than the required 75% majority to alter its articles of association so it can split the spoils between all 750 members rather than just those who have been there more than 10 years."

DT
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Adam Lawrence

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2018, 10:22:11 AM »
Quote from: Mark Chaplin on October 13, 2018, 09:42:10 AM

Adam whilst the staff are entitled to feel hacked off through jealousy (and aren’t we all!) they have no share in the ownership of the business.


Thanks Chappers, I'd never realised that.
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2018, 10:49:59 AM »
The very least that the members getting this windfall could do would be to chip in £500 or so each to make sure the redundant staff were looked after.



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Rich Goodale

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2018, 11:23:43 AM »
Agreed, Duncan. Staffs at golf courses in the UK are poorly paid, even at the very wealthy clubs.  In the USA it is very different, with GM, head Pros, food and beverage persons at the wealthy clubs are all paid at several hundreds of thousand dollars per year, and get significant money if they quit or are fired!  Time for the UK'ers here to emigrate before the Trumpster builds the Wall!
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Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

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Mark Chaplin

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2018, 01:04:36 PM »
I got paid less than £20 for a shift starting at 6.15am last Sunday due to the shotgun start in the Dunhill.



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Rich Goodale

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2018, 01:19:06 PM »
Quote from: Mark Chaplin on October 13, 2018, 01:04:36 PM
I got paid less than £20 for a shift starting at 6.15am last Sunday due to the shotgun start in the Dunhill.


I got far less than that for my stints as Finance convenor and the Match and Handicap convenor at my local club.  It's called charity.


Next week our cleaning lady is retiring and she worked much harder than me.  I doubt if the club's whip around will be less than a thousand squid.  I do not think that the UK respects service.  IMHO.  Very much different over here in Florida.  IMVHO.


Rich
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Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Kalen Braley

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2018, 01:24:44 PM »
Rich,


Not to open this can of worms, but its well to remember all the various forms of compensation one recieves


Sure you may make a few bucks more per hour here for a low level job, but what about healthcare? Sick time?  Paid Leave?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 01:32:59 PM by Kalen Braley »
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Mark Chaplin

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2018, 01:56:06 PM »
Rich slight difference between a club volunteer and a paid member of staff.
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Rich Goodale

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2018, 01:59:08 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on October 13, 2018, 01:24:44 PM
Rich,


Not to open this can of worms, but its well to remember all the various forms of compensation one recieves


Sure you may make a few bucks more per hour here for a low level job, but what about healthcare? Sick time?  Paid Leave?


With all due respect, Kalen, from my experience I am talking about high level jobs.  Over here in old blimey, "low level" workers get screwed, making low level money and getting low level care (outside of emergencies) and die earlier and more poor than they should.  I'm in both the NHS and Medicare systems, and neither works well but the latter lets you see a doctor almost immediately whereas the NHS lets you wait on the waiting list until you get really sick or know somebody to bump your name up the waiting list.  Been there, done there, got the t-shirts.  It's not a pretty thing.......
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Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Rich Goodale

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2018, 02:02:44 PM »
Quote from: Mark Chaplin on October 13, 2018, 01:56:06 PM
Rich slight difference between a club volunteer and a paid member of staff.


And a very big difference between private sector workers and public sectors workers, particularly in terms of pensions....
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Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Wimbledon Park Takes The Money And Runs
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2018, 02:29:26 PM »

Mark C,


I suspect that it is losing their job that might be the upsetting thing for the staff as apposed to them being jealous of the members good fortune. One would hope they would get a decent redundancy package.


Rich,


I think you are looking through very rose tinted glasses when looking at this. As to how crap it is here in the UK if you dislike it so much there is no one making you return.



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