Stop the Ryder Cup

[Peter Pallotta]

Here's an outside the box idea, since it couldn't hurt:

The "united states" became a unity of sub-national states long before the "european union" became a community of national states. Why not replicate the trans-boundary energy of the Europeans (with golfers from Spain and Italy and England etc) with some American trans-border moxie & sensibility? 

Why not have only 6 automatic/points-based qualifiers and then 6 captain's picks selected by region/state instead of past performance or points, i.e. a golfer from the North East, the South East, the Mid West, the South, the South West and the North West?

As I say, it couldn't hurt -- and then at least the US team could 'come together' by embracing their differences and celebrating their shared destiny.   

(I thought first of having a couple of Democrats selected to balance out the Republicans, but then realized that it wouldn't work.)     

[Lou_Duran]

It seems to me that the frequent American losses since the UK candidate pool was expanded to include continental Europe have numerous fathers.

If necessity is the mother of invention, the RC revenues are required to balance the European Tour's books.  Perhaps the Europeans just have more skin in the game- higher motivation.  I am surprised that the PGA Tour appears to be mostly hands-off on the event's riches, but perhaps the players are sufficiently wealthy that they don't mind raising funds for their counterparts at the club level.

With private aviation, I just don't understand why the top 20 or so contenders for the US team didn't make the trip to France over the past year.  Perhaps there is more to the theory that the American players are still stuck back in time when the RC was more of an exhibition than a no-holds-barred competition.

Could the schedule be ill-conceived?  Why hold the RC immediately following the final of the Fed-Ex Cup where so many of the US players are in the no-cut field?  It seems to me that if an off week between the last two Fed-Ex events is necessary, perhaps another off week prior to the RC is an equally good idea.

Finally, the politics in choosing the US captain might be deserving of scrutiny.  I am not sure what type of leadership our pampered players will respond to- I am still scratching my head that a young guy like Spieth failed to meet the minimal tournaments requirement- but I'd take a no nonsense, all-in Tom Watson to a laid-back, less successful player like Jim Furyk. 

Perhaps our next captain will stop the nonsense that the Americans are the favorites dead in its tracks.  It certainly doesn't reflect reality and gives the Europeans a chip for their shoulders that they don't need or deserve.  If our boys are just too over-burdened with an annual team competition following a "long" season, maybe the RC should incorporate the President's and Asian Cups into a week-long match play format some time following the Fed-EX Cup.


 

[Duncan Cheslett]

The Ryder Cup used to be contested between the USA and GB&I. Such was the dominance of the USA that the rest of Europe was recruited to balance things up.


Is it not time for the USA to recruit the Rest of the World so that they have a chance?


Europe vs ROW (including USA)  -  The Old World vs The New


It has a nice ring to it! 

[Kalen Braley]

I like the idea of Winner plays the other team the following year, e.g. Euros play the Internationals next year... but that would be more difficult to orchestrate from a logistics perspective.

[Thomas Dai]

Is it not time for the USA to recruit the Rest of the World so that they have a chance?
Europe vs ROW (including USA)  -  The Old World vs The New
It has a nice ring to it! 

You rascal, your comment reminds me of the Dick Emery character saying - “You are naughty,......but I like you!”
Atb

[Terry Lavin]

I’ve attended three: Valderrama, Oakland Hills and Medinah. Very sub par fan experience, IMHO. Most of my fun was in corporate tents, because it is hard to see much in the way of spectator golf.


There seems to have been an evolution on the American pro community where they remain solitary figures. I don’t get the sense that they’re team oriented. They don’t seem interested in any fraternal activity. Tiger and Phil have epitomized this sense of separateness. That doesn’t help when they try to get into team building.


As an American, I find it difficult to cheer for teams that don’t appear to like each other’s company. As a result, I don’t tune in much anymore to watch the putting under pressure telecasts.


Finally, we will never get anywhere with a team that includes man-boys like Reed and DeChambeau. What a pitiful pair.

[Jim Hoak]

I'm curious how much RC TV did posters on here from the US watch--either live or taped.  I watched less than an hour.  I'm sure the time difference affected that, but I also didn't really care mainly for the reasons Terry just gave.

[Ira Fishman]

Jim,


I watched most of Saturday afternoon foursomes and virtually all of Sunday.  My wife did as well.  However, like A.G., I am not particularly nationalistic about sports so the Americans not doing well was not a turn-off.  I could not abide the course, but found the excitement of match play and the enthusiasm of the European team and fans to be worth investing the time. 


Ira

[Kalen Braley]

I'm curious how much RC TV did posters on here from the US watch--either live or taped.  I watched less than an hour.  I'm sure the time difference affected that, but I also didn't really care mainly for the reasons Terry just gave.

3-4 hours total.  About half of that on Sunday morning when it looked like the US was going to make a charge...


For me, I could care less what they do behind the scenes for camaraderie and otherwise....as long as they be an actual pro and bring enthusiasm, fire, and their game to the event, which they obviously didn't. 

[Joe Zucker]

I thought everyone said the new generation of players was too soft because they were good friends?  The idea of Hogan and Snead or Palmer and Nicklaus (in their early days) going on Spring Break with each other like Justin, Rickie, and Jordan did was foreign to many people.    The modern greats supposedly do not want to bury their competitors like the legends of 50 years ago.  They don't have the killer instinct to go for wins in stroke play, but now they are not good enough friends for match play?  Seems contradictory to me.


The sample size of Ryder Cups is too small to draw and firm conclusions.  All speculation is reactionary.  It sure looks like the Europeans know something the Americans don't, but distilling it down to one or two problems is impossible.  To paraphrase a quote from FA Hayak,  we are attempting to design/critique a system we know very little about.

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

Excellent analysis on your first point.  It does seem very contradictory.

However, I disagree for this Ryder Cup.  Furyk made a ton of mistakes that played a big role in the US loss. Then throw in the fact that the home team wins about 75% of the time, and the US hasn't won in Europe in 25 years and it seems the odds were not in thier favor from the start.

[Bill Raffo]

My two cents...take the top six point leaders from this Ryder Cup and say, "Congrats, barring injury or dramatic fall off in play, you are on the next Ryder Cup team." Those six sit out the Presidents Cup which goes to the top ten other guys and two captains picks. That group plays for five spots and you leave one Captains pick for the following year's Ryder Cup.


That way, you have a team full of people who were successful the last time they were in that format.  There is prestige in securing one of those spots and it can no longer be predicated on Tour performance. You want to be on US Ryder Cup Team, you're going to have to come out a winner in the format. Otherwise, watch from home.

[jeffwarne]

I’ve attended three: Valderrama, Oakland Hills and Medinah. Very sub par fan experience, IMHO. Most of my fun was in corporate tents, because it is hard to see much in the way of spectator golf.

100% not the case this year.
I've attended 44 Masters and every other Majors multiple times. This was my second Ryder Cup (War by the shore was the other)
I will say that I have left The Masters many times after 2 hours to go play golf.


Nothing was close to this year's Ryder Cup from a viewing and fan experience.
My wife is 5 foot 1 and saw more live golf than she's ever seen at any event.
Le Golf National may be an awful course to play, but is a spectator's dream with all the spectator  mounds and nearby holes etc. as well as all the jumbotrons and earphone radios.


and for those not that into the golf, the cheers chants, singing and costumes are highly entertaining.
The energy was amazing and the atmosphere was electric but the fans were very polite and respectful.


I didn't set foot in a Corporate tent.


I'm definitely going to Rome.

[Terry Lavin]

I’ve attended three: Valderrama, Oakland Hills and Medinah. Very sub par fan experience, IMHO. Most of my fun was in corporate tents, because it is hard to see much in the way of spectator golf.

100% not the case this year.
I've attended 44 Masters and every other Majors multiple times. This was my second Ryder Cup (War by the shore was the other)
I will say that I have left The Masters many times after 2 hours to go play golf.


Nothing was close to this year's Ryder Cup from a viewing and fan experience.
My wife is 5 foot 1 and saw more live golf than she's ever seen at any event.
Le Golf National may be an awful course to play, but is a spectator's dream with all the spectator  mounds and nearby holes etc. as well as all the jumbotrons and earphone radios.


and for those not that into the golf, the cheers chants, singing and costumes are highly entertaining.
The energy was amazing and the atmosphere was electric but the fans were very polite and respectful.


I didn't set foot in a Corporate tent.


I'm definitely going to Rome.

Great report. I did take note of the numerous amphitheater like seating areas in Paris. The course didn’t look interesting on tv but I can relate to what you’re talking about.

[Mike Schott]

It comes down to which team wants it more. You can't tell me the Euro team was more talented this year from top to bottom. There is a much larger chip on the shoulder of the European squad. Countering that, the US team focuses more on stroke vs match play. They want to win tournaments more than team competitions.


My theory as to why Tiger does so poorly is that it doesn't mean that much to him. Not that he's not trying hard but how else can you explain his play just a week apart? Certainly it meant more to him to win again than to win the Ryder Cup. Add to that the intensity the European players have when matched against him. And this applies to the other players too. Koepka and DJ are not intense by nature. They are just talented and Koepka for one does better on certain types of courses.

[Joe Zucker]

Joe,

Excellent analysis on your first point.  It does seem very contradictory.

However, I disagree for this Ryder Cup.  Furyk made a ton of mistakes that played a big role in the US loss. Then throw in the fact that the home team wins about 75% of the time, and the US hasn't won in Europe in 25 years and it seems the odds were not in thier favor from the start.

Kalen, I agree it looks like Furyk made some silly moves and the US has reached the point that playing in Europe has to be in their heads now, but I think it could have turned the other way very easily.  What if Sergio had gone 1 - 3 instead of 3 -1? Which he easily could have done considering he has been playing like a dog all season.  What if Molinari goes 3 - 2 instead of having the greatest Ryder Cup of any European player in history?  Both of those could have easily happened and if they did, the US would have won. 


It seems clear that Furyk made some poor percentage plays, but my point is that the difference between a slight US win and the blowout we saw is very minimal.  It could have easily happened with very few differences, so I'm hesitant to draw sweeping conclusions when a million factors are at play.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

- They have so much $$$, it is not that important to them to make the cut each week, when their "A" game is not there.  They just schedule another lesson with the swing guru of choice.

Justin Thomas, on a podcast recently, said very much the opposite. Maybe it's just him, but he HATES missing the cut more than he hates being in contention and not closing the deal. Miss the cut: $0, time and energy completely wasted. Make the cut, and you get a chance to fight it out and possibly come back to do well on the weekend. (To be clear, that's my recollection of his opinion, not my own opinion.)

[mike_malone]

Alright! Keep the Ryder Cup. Just don’t televise it. As has been stated it comes down to a putting contest. Let’s go to some goofy putting green, give them beers, and go at it!  Televise that! 

[V. Kmetz]

I've attended 44 Masters and every other Majors multiple times. This was my second Ryder Cup (War by the shore was the other)
I will say that I have left The Masters many times after 2 hours to go play golf.

JW...don't you think that contextual fact (44x) and your Augusta bio-roots have something to do with that...?

But anyways, this Ryder Cup is no different than any other modern commercial entertainment, over-hyped, oversold, over-nationalized, over-analyzed over everything with an ad for a cherry on top...and the bs of it has deluded people so much that we hear these crazy hypotheses from honest-to-goodness GOLFERS on this hobbyists' site that the results owe to not caring/wanting it more (or less) than one side...since when did Golf become a sport that "wanting it more" has often resulted in getting it more?... Especially when 2/3rds of it is playing on a team, 1/3 not even playing one's own ball, which these individual sportsmen almost never do....

These captain's picks, and press conferences, and new uniform iterations and "battle" imagery are so full of shit, so insufferable, it's nearly as bad as trying to watch any news program these days....and what's the result?  A storehouse of great memories or of golf's classic sportsmanship?...No the only memories I have are of boorish behavior, of spectator clowns trying for their 15 minutes, of missed putts and subsequent labels as chokers...we care much more about the losers' failings than the winners' virtues anyways...as long as someone can be demeaned or humiliated, there's something to talk/post/blog/podcast/text about.

I shun it so much that I forgot it was going on. My players' fortunes in the season-ending Member-Member at WF were much more riveting and profitable; and Sunday I slept late, set my fantasy football lineups and watched 11 hours of that with much greater interest.

Want to bring it back to a fun competition/exhibition that will bring smiles to more?  Then:


1. Set the thing between Christmas and New Years (when I'm longing for golf and want to see how the players are shaping up for the new season)in a warm weather climate
2. Include the President's Cup Internationals as a third and fourth squad.
3. Include Seniors and MidAms (would love to see Rory playing Monty's drives etc in foursomes/alt-shot formats)
4. Play a Round Robin among the four teams for 3 days
5. Play a day of Medal Aggregate among the 3 divisions for Saturday
6. Play a Match Aggregate among the 3 divisions for Sunday.

cheers   vk

[Garland Bayley]

Alright! Keep the Ryder Cup. Just don’t televise it. As has been stated it comes down to a putting contest. Let’s go to some goofy putting green, give them beers, and go at it!  Televise that!

Let's compromise. If they don't broadcast one of my favorite events, then they must not broadcast one of your favorite events. I would be happy if they quit broadcasting that homage to arrogance and privilege each April obnoxiously called The Masters.

[Peter Flory]

$200K in charitable contributions in each American players' name gets doled out.  That is $2.4MM.  The PGA and European tours keep the rest.  The total revenues from the event are estimated to be north of $100MM with costs to run it at about 33%-50%.  So, say the net profit is somewhere in the $50MM-$70MM range- that doesn't go to the players. 


Maybe the American players have the right attitude to view this as more of an exhibition.  Show up, try hard, then leave.  Don't stress out too much about it. 


If the victors get the spoils, that could be a different animal. 

[Mark Pearce]

Alright! Keep the Ryder Cup. Just don’t televise it. As has been stated it comes down to a putting contest. Let’s go to some goofy putting green, give them beers, and go at it!  Televise that!

You guys want it both ways.  There have been complaints on here that the course was crap because players couldn't play recovery shots and holes were over before they got to the green.  You're unhappy because it was a putting contest.  Come on guys, which was it?

[Niall C]

Alright! Keep the Ryder Cup. Just don’t televise it. As has been stated it comes down to a putting contest. Let’s go to some goofy putting green, give them beers, and go at it!  Televise that!

You guys want it both ways.  There have been complaints on here that the course was crap because players couldn't play recovery shots and holes were over before they got to the green.  You're unhappy because it was a putting contest.  Come on guys, which was it?

Mark

I'll go for both ways. I do think that with the penal set up, a lot of holes were settled half way down the fairway but I also think the way golf is presented on TV, not just the RC, makes it look like a putting contest.

Niall

[jeffwarne]

I've attended 44 Masters and every other Majors multiple times. This was my second Ryder Cup (War by the shore was the other)
I will say that I have left The Masters many times after 2 hours to go play golf.

JW...don't you think that contextual fact (44x) and your Augusta bio-roots have something to do with that...?

100% LOL
That combined with my ADD and the inspirational aspects of being at The Masters

[Tony_Muldoon]

 but I also think the way golf is presented on TV, not just the RC, makes it look like a putting contest.

Niall

This goes double for the highlights of the Masters or Ryder Cup that the Beeb throw us.