Stop the Ryder Cup

[mike_malone]

 Americans don’t care. Euros do. I love their enthusiasm but am tired of our disinterest.

[Kalen Braley]

Americans don’t care. Euros do. I love their enthusiasm but am tired of our disinterest.

Mikes thats easy...change the channel   

[Carl Rogers]

The Ryder Cup failure is a function of adversity American Style. 
- The Americans view competitvive golf as an individual sport only.  it is alien to them to take one for the Team (ie: 3 iron off the tee to hit the short grass)
- They have so much $$$, it is not that important to them to make the cut each week, when their "A" game is not there.  They just schedule another lesson with the swing guru of choice.

[cary lichtenstein]

For me personally, I never liked the Ryder Cup. It's impossible to watch on tv, all you see is putting, hard to recognize the players as everyone wears the same outfit, the tv switches back and forth and I find it hard to follow and boring.

[Matt_Cohn]

- They have so much $$$, it is not that important to them to make the cut each week, when their "A" game is not there.  They just schedule another lesson with the swing guru of choice.

Justin Rose literally won $10 million last week. Rory, Sergio, Henrik, Casey, Poulter...they're not exactly poor. Rory, in his own words, has $200 million. It might be a lot of things, but it's not the money.

[Peter Flory]

So the pod system didn't fix all of our problems?  Back to the drawing board. 

[Ed Brzezowski]

Very bitter there Mayday?   I've been to one, loved it. A fun event, our guys just made some poor choices. I would go to another in a heartbeat.

ed

[Kalen Braley]

Furyk didn't exactly shine in his role  (outside of Hal Sutton, I'm having a hard time recalling a worse US captain).


1)  His CPs were pretty abysmal considering he should have known the course was not suitable for bomb and gouge guys like Tiger and Phil.
2)  Putting Phil in during alternate shot, and then not at all for fourball is beyond baffling.
3)  And even thou Reed perhaps said it wrong, I don't understand how he didn't pair him with Spieth after they personally wrecked the Euros two years ago.
4)  His gloom and doom, down and out, comments Saturday night after going down 10-6 was a WTF...(look up Ben C on this one)

[Steve Kline]

- The Americans view competitvive golf as an individual sport only.  it is alien to them to take one for the Team (ie: 3 iron off the tee to hit the short grass)

It wasn't alien to Phil Mickleson. He was just playing so bad he hit it in the water anyway.

[mike_malone]

https://twitter.com/rydercupeurope/status/1047200265126866944?s=21


US will never have a video like this.

[Garland Bayley]

It seems to me that a captain shouldn't make picks of players that can't win at least 50% of the time.

In other sports, if a lower % of your attempts find the goal, you're not going to get picked much.

Personally, I love the Ryder, President's, Solhiem, etc. Cups.
Medal play is less inspiring.

[Mike_Clayton]

Severiano Ballesteros instilled in his teams a cause. It was to show the European Tour was not a second rate imitation of the US Tour.
He made the players in his teams feel like they were the best players in the world
Americans have no such cause and Tiger has failed to rally, or inspire, his men the way Seve did his. The Europeans have never lost the passion for the Ryder Cup because, aside from winning a major, it is the one event that defines their careers.
Exhibit 1 is Ian Poulter.

[Mike Sweeney]

Severiano Ballesteros instilled in his teams a cause. It was to show the European Tour was not a second rate imitation of the US Tour.
He made the players in his teams feel like they were the best players in the world
Americans have no such cause and Tiger has failed to rally, or inspire, his men the way Seve did his. The Europeans have never lost the passion for the Ryder Cup because, aside from winning a major, it is the one event that defines their careers.
Exhibit 1 is Ian Poulter.

I would only add that the Americans have to play an International Cup every year, Ryder this year and Presidents next. Clearly they are not motivated and are in some sort of fight now:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-6234887/Koepka-plays-Ryder-Cup-spat-Johnson-admits-does-wonder-win-scrap.html


Obviously the back to back Cups is driven by the US television market, but it my view, the Presidents Cup should be the play in qualifier.


Thus, USA vs ROW next year for Presidents Cup. The winner then plays Europe for The 2020 Ryder Cup. The America's Cup in sailing has had this type of evolution - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Cup


And bring in a real coach from a team sport and/or maybe make a college golf coach as an assistant for the Captain. See USA Basketball for a similar evolution of coaching - https://www.usab.com/mens/national-team.aspx

[Niall C]

Severiano Ballesteros instilled in his teams a cause. It was to show the European Tour was not a second rate imitation of the US Tour.
He made the players in his teams feel like they were the best players in the world
Americans have no such cause and Tiger has failed to rally, or inspire, his men the way Seve did his. The Europeans have never lost the passion for the Ryder Cup because, aside from winning a major, it is the one event that defines their careers.
Exhibit 1 is Ian Poulter.

Actually Mike, exhibit 1 is Monty, Poulter is exhibit 2.

Niall

[Jim Franklin]

Americans don’t care. Euros do. I love their enthusiasm but am tired of our disinterest.

Mikes thats easy...change the channel   

Let the people that enjoy it, enjoy it. Change channel. So what if the USA doesn't care as much as the Euros. They still care and try.

This Ryder Cup was lost the first day. Even though the US was up 3-1 after morning session, Furyk used the wrong guys. Never should have used Phil in foursomes. Bryson should have partnered with Tiger in foursomes. They are the only two to use the Bridgestone ball. Bubba should not have been used in foursomes either. Bubba and Phil in four balls would have been interesting. IMHO, this loss is clearly on Furyk.

Not only that, this course was won on the greens. Maybe he should have picked better drivers and better putters.

[Thomas Dai]

I recall general comments from years/decades ago along the lines of "the big thing for the US players is to make the team, the big thing for the Euro's/GB&I is to win the match!".


And if you click on the Twitter link Mike posted above, ie


- https://twitter.com/rydercupeurope/status/1047200265126866944?s=21[/size]then keep scrolling down to see some amusing (to some?) other comments and short videos.


atb

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[Ian Mackenzie]

I think Americans don't like losing while not getting paid.


But, they sure do like winning the Ryder Cup!!


Cancel the President's Club and put more emphasis on the Ryder Cup.

[A.G._Crockett]

I'm not very nationalistic, so I don't care much who wins the Ryder Cup, or who loses.  I like watching good golf, especially match play with multiple matches going on at once, so I really like watching the Ryder and Presidents Cups.

That said, it just doesn't ring true that the Americans lose because they don't care, or that the Euros care more, or that the Americans just want to make the team, and so on.  That kind of thing in athletics isn't a light switch that you turn off and on; great athletes tend to care all the time, which is a very large part of how they got to the pinnacle of their craft.  I'd guess that the 24 players on the two teams, plus many, many others who didn't make the teams, are not very far apart at all in terms of how much they care and how much they want to win.  Plus, the concept that a bunch of guys from different countries care more than a bunch of guys from one country just doesn't make sense. 

Plus, the Americans don't seem to have any trouble "caring" when the play the Presidents Cup, right?  Let's look elsewhere...

So I think that to explain what's happening, it's more about understanding what the Euros ARE doing than what the Americans are NOT doing.  And I think that's simple: the Euros have been able to play with an underdog mentality all along, and the BEST way to play any sport, and maybe especially golf, is as a talented underdog. 

By whatever measure, Tour wins, majors, the money list, the FedEX standings, whatever, the Americans are the favorites pretty much every time, and that fuels ANY competitor to shove that back, at which the Euros seem to excel.  It could be that the "world's against me" ethic was started by Ballesteros and has been successfully maintained ever since, but for whatever the reason, the Euros never seem nervous, only charged up.  It's admirable.
I think another factor maybe that the course setups when the Cup is contested in Europe are more beneficial to the Euros than the setups here are to the Americans.  That's just an impression, but there seemed to be a lot of holes at this golf course that took driver out of play, and the rough was at least comparable to US Open rough. 

[Ben Stephens]

The Americans need advice from the US contingent of the annual BUDA most definitely from Whitty, Lynn, Lou and Wardo who all hate the concept of losing and how to have proper banter/drinks rather than bash each other up! 

[Colin Shellard]

Personally I love the Ryder Cup, have done since I was a kid. One of my first memories in golf was watching the RC at the Belfry, Christy O'Connor Jnr hitting that 2iron on the 18th, Seve hitting a 3 wood out of the right hand bunker on the same hole. I love the different feel to anything else in golf, I know it's a bit loud and some of the fans can get out of control - but it's compulsive viewing.
My wife is a non golfer, doesn't play and apart from the odd trip to the Dunhill Links or the Open at St Andrews couldn't care less about the normal events and sat glued to the final day of the match at Medinah. That was compulsive viewing that transcended golf.


Yes as Europeans we like to grab the underdog tag, but secretly believe we can, and will, win.


I know there are countless articles that have been written since Sunday on why the European's won, but to me it came down to the fact we played the course better over the 3 days. Yes some of the pairings were questionable, and Bjorn's Captain's picks delivered when Furyks certainly did not - that said I think there was more outcry about the European picks when they were made. I was one of those saying that we shouldn't be picking Garcia, and that Matt Wallace should have been selected - Well if Thomas is reading this I offer you my humble apology, you were spot on and I was wrong. Certain players seem to be able to elevate their games for the Ryder cup and our picks did this rime round, although it has failed in the past, as it did at Hazeltine.


I like the idea of the losers in the RC playing in the Presidents Cup for the right to play in the RC, but it's never going to happen as the PGA Tour own the PC and the PGA of America and the European Tour own the RC. You might not know, but the Europeans also play another event on the European / Asian Tour call the EurAsia Cup (and previoulsy the Royal Trophy) (previously there was another known as the Seve Trophy which was between continental Europe and GB & Ireland). Just like the Presidents Cup it's not the Ryder Cup and the feel is very different.

[Kalen Braley]

Americans don’t care. Euros do. I love their enthusiasm but am tired of our disinterest.

Mikes thats easy...change the channel   

Let the people that enjoy it, enjoy it. Change channel. So what if the USA doesn't care as much as the Euros. They still care and try.

This Ryder Cup was lost the first day. Even though the US was up 3-1 after morning session, Furyk used the wrong guys. Never should have used Phil in foursomes. Bryson should have partnered with Tiger in foursomes. They are the only two to use the Bridgestone ball. Bubba should not have been used in foursomes either. Bubba and Phil in four balls would have been interesting. IMHO, this loss is clearly on Furyk.

Not only that, this course was won on the greens. Maybe he should have picked better drivers and better putters.

Jim,


Completely agreed.  I can't recall another RC captain who made so many tactical mistakes both before and during the matches...

[Ira Fishman]

Ever since 1979 when the RC went from GB&I to Europe, the Europeans have had talented, deep teams.  It is a myth that the US has better players largely perpetuated by the US Media and the fact that the US names are more familiar to Americans because of the PGA.  Plus it is not as though Europe just perpetually wins--Europe leads 11-8-1 which means they have won only 55% of the Cups since 1979.


I do think Europe has two built-in advantages.  First, the Europeans grow up playing match play and often foursomes.  Second, the Europeans by and large are used to playing away from their home country whereas the Americans venture overseas infrequently.


The RC is great theater both because of the drama and the raucous crowds. 


Ira

[George Pazin]

I'm not very nationalistic, so I don't care much who wins the Ryder Cup, or who loses.  I like watching good golf, especially match play with multiple matches going on at once, so I really like watching the Ryder and Presidents Cups.

That said, it just doesn't ring true that the Americans lose because they don't care, or that the Euros care more, or that the Americans just want to make the team, and so on.  That kind of thing in athletics isn't a light switch that you turn off and on; great athletes tend to care all the time, which is a very large part of how they got to the pinnacle of their craft.  I'd guess that the 24 players on the two teams, plus many, many others who didn't make the teams, are not very far apart at all in terms of how much they care and how much they want to win.  Plus, the concept that a bunch of guys from different countries care more than a bunch of guys from one country just doesn't make sense. 

Plus, the Americans don't seem to have any trouble "caring" when the play the Presidents Cup, right?  Let's look elsewhere...

So I think that to explain what's happening, it's more about understanding what the Euros ARE doing than what the Americans are NOT doing.  And I think that's simple: the Euros have been able to play with an underdog mentality all along, and the BEST way to play any sport, and maybe especially golf, is as a talented underdog. 

By whatever measure, Tour wins, majors, the money list, the FedEX standings, whatever, the Americans are the favorites pretty much every time, and that fuels ANY competitor to shove that back, at which the Euros seem to excel.  It could be that the "world's against me" ethic was started by Ballesteros and has been successfully maintained ever since, but for whatever the reason, the Euros never seem nervous, only charged up.  It's admirable.
I think another factor maybe that the course setups when the Cup is contested in Europe are more beneficial to the Euros than the setups here are to the Americans.  That's just an impression, but there seemed to be a lot of holes at this golf course that took driver out of play, and the rough was at least comparable to US Open rough.

This is a mighty fine post.

[Jim Hoak]

How about a requirement that a Captain has to have a winning record in the Ryder Cup to be picked?
Or, at least, make him get away from picking older players for their "experience," especially when that is just experience at losing?

[Jim Hoak]

Since we are searching for reasons to explain the bi-annual poor performance of the US Ryder Cup team, what do you think of questioning the ownership of the event?  In the US, it is owned by the PGA of America, the club-pro organization, not the players' PGA Tour.  That was part of the compromise when the two split in the 1960's.
Correct me if I'm wrong--but I believe in Europe the ownership is split between the Tour and the club-pro organizations.
This fact is probably not totally relevant to the outcome, but it may affect the emphasis.  The Presidents' Cup was created--almost plain and simply--because the US Tour wanted to own a team event and reap the money from it.  The Tour's heart can't equally be in the Ryder Cup.