News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Kyle Harris

My All 2005 18
« on: December 23, 2005, 12:45:37 PM »
I mentioned in the Year in Review Thread that this was the most prolific year of golf course playing that I've had since 1998.

To that tune: Here is my all 2005 18, consisting of holes I've seen for the first time this year from the following courses:

Rolling Green
Lulu
Manufacturer's
West Shore
Bethpage Red
Bethpage Yellow
Cobb's Creek
Beechtree

1st: #1 Rolling Green: A great handshake hole with a fiendish putting green.
2nd: #2 Lulu: Wonderfully quirky and short par 4
3rd: #3 Manufacturer's G&CC: Long brute with a semi-punchbowl green
4th: #4 West Shore CC: A long par five with a great green complex
5th: #5 Rolling Green: Great par 4 with a blind tee shot and tricky approach
6th: #6 Cobb's Creek: Needs some love, but uses the creek as a centerline feature and offers options off the tee.
7th: #7 Bethpage Red: Wonderful par 3 across natural chasm in the terrain
8th: #8 Lulu: Tommy Naccarato's favorite punchbowl, what more can I say?
9th: #9 West Shore CC: Great downhill par 3 over a pond. Huge green with a lot of hole locations

10th: #10 Rolling Green: Yeah, back to back par 3s, but this one is more of par 3.75
11th: #11 Lulu: Another wonderfully quirky uphill par 4. Played "snackies" with Steve Sayers on this one.  :)
12th: #12 West Shore CC: Best centerline bunker complex I've ever seen, especially for a par 5.
13th: #13 Bethpage Red: Continuing with the centerline bunker complex... another wonderful example
14th: #14 Rolling Green: Maybe one day I'll reach the green and not roll down that damn hill.
15th: #15 Beechtree: Long, brutal hole... Doak drew blood from me on this one.
16th: #16 Manufacturer's: SURPRISE! Drove it about 10 feet away from the quarry I didn't realize was there.
17th: #17 Lulu: Reached this one in two with a striped 3-wood up the hill. Somehow managed to leave the Eagle putt short from above the hole on a Lulu green....
18th: #18 Bethpage Red: Great finish requiring two great shots. Just edges out the Par 4 18th at Rolling Green.

Okay, who else wants to play?

PS: Special thanks to the following for a great year.
Wayne Morrison for Rolling Green
Steve Sayers for Lulu and the Yuengling afterwards.  :)
Doug for the trips to LI
Jim Rattigan for the great rounds at Schuylkill
Cory Lewis for a great day at Beechtree

« Last Edit: December 23, 2005, 12:51:05 PM by Kyle Harris »

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My All 2005 18
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2005, 02:11:57 PM »
I'm game, but my entire course comes from 4 locations.  I enjoyed immensely my rounds at Bulle Rock, Newport National, and We-Ko-Pa, but there aren't any holes at those courses that stand out enough in my mind to work their way past the best that these four have to offer...

#1 - Bandon Trails - I couldn't hit a reasonable tee shot on that hole, but I liked the starting style a little more than PacDunes.  Maybe just because it was new for me.
#2 - Pacific Dunes - I love the tee shot on this hole.  The bunker in the middle of the fairway dictates everything for me.  Trails isn't far behind in my mind.
#3 - Pacific Dunes - Bandon Dunes is a close second.  I'd probably like the 3rd at Banff Springs a little more if it weren't for my scores.
#4 - Banff Springs - Though 2nd and 3rd on this list could easily make the top 18 if I weren't going by hole number.  Talk about all-world holes!  There's just something about coming off the 3rd green at Banff, knowing what is right around the corner even though you can't see it.  I could debate #4 at these three courses and never be comfortable with my final selection.
#5 - Bandon Trails - This is another tough one for me.  I could easily go with Bandon Dunes or Pacific Dunes here.
#6 - Pacific Dunes - How can I not go with Bandon Dunes?  My head is starting to hurt.  Maybe I shouldn't play this game.
#7 - Pacific Dunes - I love this par 4.
#8 - Banff Springs - While I did get more enjoyment out of PacDunes and Bandon Dunes #8 on the second trip than I did the first time around, I really like this short hole at Banff (actually, it's hard not to like any of the short holes at Banff.)
#9 - Bandon Dunes - This is a clear case of bias since I made an eagle there in 2003.  I still loved it this time around, but it was more for the memories.
#10 - Pacific Dunes - I can't believe I'm picking this one over another great one-shotter at Banff, but this hole starts my favorite stretch of golf in the world.
#11 - Pacific Dunes - No contest.
#12 - Banff Springs - I also really like the short hole at Bandon Dunes.
#13 - Pacific Dunes - The painting on my wall says it all.
#14 - Banff Springs - I really enjoyed playing this one.
#15 - Banff Springs - I really like Pacific Dunes, but walking across a tributary of my favorite river in the world up to the back of my favorite hotel in the world to tee the ball over said river is about as good as it gets for me.  The bagpipes playing on the hotel grounds while I was striping it down the middle sealed the deal.
#16 - Bandon Dunes - I really liked Pacific Dunes 16 much more this time around, but I still love the look of Bandon Dunes #16 from the tee.
#17 - Pacific Dunes - I think I've hit everything from 8-iron to 3-wood on this hole depending upon where they have the green tees and how hard the wind is blowing.  More often than not, I screw it up, but I finally hit the green and made a par.  Bandon Trails has a great #17 as well.
#18 - Bandon Trails - I also enjoy the finish at Pacific Dunes, but that hole is usually accompanied by a sadness that a round at my favorite course is complete.  Like #1 at Bandon Trails, I've had a challenge finding the fairway on this one.

Thanks for posting the thread.  I had a great time just recalling all these marvelous holes.  Here's hoping 2006 can match it!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:My All 2005 18
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2005, 04:52:45 PM »
The three courses we built this year are good enough to hold up their end of an eclectic 18:

Stone Eagle:  1st, 6th, 8th, 9th, 13th, 15th
Sebonack:  2nd, 5th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 18th
Ballyneal:  3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th, 16th, 17th

Although that would be a par 74, with five par 5's and only three short holes!  Also, the fifth through seventh holes would be back-to-back-to-back 340-yard holes as different as you could find.

The toughest battles were between the 8th at Stone Eagle and Ballyneal -- I might change my mind on that one -- and for the 12th and 18th holes, where all three courses had a good candidate.  However, by amazing coincidence, each course won six holes in my analysis!

Kyle Harris

Re:My All 2005 18
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2005, 05:17:32 PM »
Interesting angle Tom,

Any other architects able to do a similar list?  :)

Andy Troeger

Re:My All 2005 18
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2005, 05:50:22 PM »
Here's mine...although I did work with it so as to have 6 short holes, six medium, and six long (par 3, 4, 5 if you prefer). Also listed a few honorable mentions...and only included comments for holes not already profiled on this site.

#1 Blackwolf Run River (5)
#2 Long Beach, Michigan City, IN (3)--long par three to tiny green.
#3 Angels Crossing (3)--200 yard par three over marsh.
#4 World Woods Pine Barrens (5)
#5 Blackwolf Run River (4)
#6 The Fort, Indy, (5)--par five, narrow driving area.
#7 Whistling Straits (3)
#8 Whistling Straits (4)
#9 Blackwolf Run River (4)
#10 Tullymore (4)--tough par four with water left and green with a ridge to dare the golfer towards the back left pin.
#11 Arcadia Bluffs (5)--great par five going down to the lake
#12 Paa-Ko Ridge (5)--another five, downhill tee, reachable in two.
#13 Arcadia Bluffs (3)--beautiful hole over the chasm.
#14 Blackwolf Run Meadow Valleys (4)--conservative tee to the plateau leaves mid-iron to green with water on three sides.
#15 World Woods Pine Barrens (4)
#16 Paa-Ko Ridge (3)--always play the high tee to get full effect of the wind and view. water short, and narrow angled green.
#17 Whistling Straits (3)
#18 Tullymore (5)--risk/reward short 5, can make any number here, wonderful finish.

A few honorable mentions:
#2, 17 Angels Crossing
#8, 11, 16 Blackwolf Run River
#5, 12 Arcadia Bluffs
#3 Whistling Straits
#17 Paa-Ko Ridge
#8 Tullymore
#11 Kemper Lakes
#11 The Fort
#15, 18 Blackwolf Run Meadow Valleys
#9 St. Ives

« Last Edit: December 24, 2005, 10:22:40 AM by Andy Troeger »

Matt_Ward

Re:My All 2005 18
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2005, 07:18:28 PM »
I don't have the time to go through my All 2005 18 because of holiday issues but I will say this without hestitation or the slightest of reservations -- the 1st at Greywalls at Marquette GC in Marquette, MI is a tour de force starting hole.

At 579 yards the 1st at Greywalls -- designed by the truly talented Mike DeVres (of Kingsley fame) -- starts out with an elevated tee box that serves notice on where you must hit with your opening blow.

The fairway bobs and weaves like the Atlantic Ocean on a stormy wintry day and the golfer must determine one's line of play among a myriad of options.

DeVries started Kingsley Club with a superb par-5 but the 1st at Greywalls surpasses it IMHO.

The challenge for the better player is to attempt to hit a slider tee shot that fades gently and you can use tyhe tumbling fairway to propel one's ball to the desired landing area. Push it a tad -- emphasis on the word tad -- and you can see your tee ball finish too close to the right and enter a hollow that can leave you with nothing more than a blind shot for your second -- venture even a bit more right and high elephant grass will be so kind to introduce itself to you.

You can play out to the left side but all that does is put more pressure on one's second shot -- go too far left and a series of bunkers awaits.

Best of all, the putting surface is a sheer delight in shot control. The green runs slightly on a diagonal with fall-offs on both sides. Playing short is the best option because anything -- and I emphasize the word "anything" -- with pace that is the SLIGHTEST BIT PULLED OR PUSH will only gather even more momentum and fall further and further away from the target. Donald Ross must surely be smiling from the big designers post in the sky with this gem of a green complex.

The hole can be reached in two blows but the second shot must be as sure-footed as a seeing-eye dog taking its master through the streets of midtown Manhattan at Xmas time.

Starting holes serve a real purpose -- they should introduce you to what qualities of design lie ahead and allow you the opportunity for a bold play that pays off while at the same time spanking those who take shotmaking liberties a bit beyond what is prudent.

The 1st at Greywalls is a gem in so many ways. For that reason I don't hestitate for a New York minute to include among the golf experiences I enjoyed the most in 2005.

Matt_Ward

Re:My All 2005 18
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2005, 07:47:38 PM »
My All 2005 18 would conclude with a par-5 -- the finishing hole at Lakota Canyon Ranch in New Castle, CO -- designer by Jim Engh.

At 557 yards the hole can be reached in two blows because of the elevation but like the 1st at Greywalls you have a myriad of options to ponder and your execution needs to be no less.

The back tee is situated on a man-made elevated area. You gaze upon the fairway that rises ever so gradually uphill. The closer you can play your tee shot down the right side the better angle you possess for a go at the green in two blows.

However, should you push your tee shot too far right there is nice barranca ready and very eager to swallow your tee ball.

What makes the hole so much fun is that after a solid tee shot you have to decide if going for the green is worth the risk. Engh doesn't give away par-5's to simply birdies -- you earn them -- especially if that means going at the target in two blows. The green is slightly elevated higher than the fairway and the player can only see a tiny section of it.

The same barranca encountered on the tee shot once again is used effectively with either your attempt at the green in two or in playing to the more safe side on the far right. Thos opting for the far right will then be left with a devilish pitch of say 70-100 yards to a tiny green that falls hard from back-to-front. Heaven help anyone who pitches it too far and must then play back to the target on a severe slope away from the player.

Lakota Canyon's finale is a worthy ender -- no less than the kick-off hole I intially mentioned with the 1st at Greywalls. Boring will never be a word associated with either.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My All 2005 18
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2005, 08:39:30 AM »
My Top 18 of 2005
 
 #1 @ Sage Valley
 #2 @ Kinloch
 #3 @ The Ocean Course
 #4 @ Kinloch
 #5 @ Cassique
 #6 @ Tullymore
 #7 @ TPC Sugarloaf
 #8 @ May River
 #9 @ Kinloch
 #10 @ Ocean Forest
 #11 @ The Mines
 #12 @ The Cliffs at Walnut Cove
 #13 @ Angels Crossings
 #14 @ The Ocean Course
 #15 @ May River
 #16 @ Tullymore
 #17 @ Ocean Forest
 (tie) #18 @Tullymore and The Ocean Course
 It would be hard to break 80, as this is a Par 75/76...oh well, saw some really good par 5's this year!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI,SC
 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: December 24, 2005, 08:40:54 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My All 2005 18
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2005, 10:13:17 AM »
My new courses:

The Country Club, Brookline
St. George's, Ontario
Mill Creek, NY
Restored CC of Rochester
Monroe, NY
Hanover CC, Dartmouth
Camp Creek, FL
Greystone, NY
Ontario, NY
Terry Hills, Batavia, NY

My Eclectic 18 from these courses:

1) Ontario, 586, Par 5.  Great long five to start the day.  Ideal play is up the right, as it allows for the shorter carry over the creek on the second shot.  Of course, the bunkers just right of the fairway on both the tee shot and the second shot are cause for an unsatisfying start.

2) Camp Creek, 350, Par 4.  Diagonal carry over marshlands left yields excellent strategy, as the farther left one goes, the less they have to contend with a plethora of bunkers to the right of a slender green.

3) Terry Hills, 122, Par 3.  Already had three from the Country Club, so I decided to throw this little gem in here.  Drop shot to a green fronted by a stream and pitched severely from back to front.  A shot hit long results in a difficult two-putt, great strategy for a hole of this length.

4) The Country Club, 335, Par 4.  What more could a person what from a short par four??  From the ravine in front of the tee, to the bunker-lined ridge off the tee, to the downhill approach to a tiny 2,000 sq. ft. green, this is the best hole on the course.

5) Mill Creek, 530, Par 5.  This is a classic double fairway hole, where a player go safely low and right, or he can play to the perilous upper fairway, requiring a long carry over a deep bunker.  The green is also of great merit, with a deep bunker left to compliment the one off the tee, as well as some great feeding features within the green itself.

6) Monroe, 210, Par 3.  Ross gem of a hole plays up a narrow valley, with bunkers 40 yards short and flanking the two-tiered green.  Not hitting the right part of the small green can lead to bogey.  This exacting par three is complete with a ladder leading into the bunker behind the green, which also comes into play for a badly topped shot off the seventh tee.

7) Mill Creek, 430, Par 4.  A par four with more excellent bunkering.  The tee shot plays up over a ridge, with a bunker cut smack into the middle of the ridge.  The ideal play is to thread the ball between the center bunker and the bunker just right of the fairway.  This provides the best angle to the wild green, which has a bunker left and severely tilted from left to right.
 
8) Hanover, 440, Par 4.  Double fairway with ninth is 50+ yards wide, but with enough room for good strategy.  The heroic approach over a pond is made easier by a drive down the perilous right side.  An excellent long par four.

9) CCR, 440, Par 4.  Here the drive plays out of a hollow, with the tip of a fairway bunker peaking over the horizon.  A long drive over the fairway bunkers is just the start of the adventure.  A bunker sixty yards short gathers the poorly-struck woods of the short hitter, while providing deception for the long hitter.  The green is glued to the ground, and can only be read by the most experienced of players with the course.

10) The Country Club, 285, Par 4.  Wethered and Simpson picked the Alps as a perfect "bad" tenth hole, and my pick is in much the same vein.  A very neat hole with a mound directly in front of the green, no one our group could muster a par here.

11) St. George's, 520, Par 5.  Great routing, with the hole playing off a high tee into a valley below.  The bunkering is restored and makes the hole, as does the long, slender green.  This hole is more player-friendly and more gambling than the 11th at TCC.

12) St. George's, 380, Par 4.  A great hole at a bad length, this hole has magnificant fairway bunkering left off the tee, but the real attraction is the steeply-pitched shelf green.  Just a neat hole.

13) Greystone, 180, Par 3.  This hole is basically all fairway, but the hole is exposed to the wind, which runs directly against it.  The two tiered green is made even higher by this wind.  A simple-but-excellent par three.

14) St. George's, 460, Par 4.  The tee shot plays over a rise, but offers no real test.  The second shot, however, will be from a downhill lie over a stream.  Add in the bunkers and the length, the hole seems nearly impossible.  However, since the bank right of the green has been uncovered, one can use it, as I did, to achieve a par.  Great hole.

15) CCR, 460, Par 5.  Even with deep bunkers off the tee on this uphill par five, the hole seems very wide at the start.  However, the trouble closes in fast on the second shot, with three new, deep bunkers right and OB probably five paces left of the green.  The green itself defends par, as hitting it in two leaves much doubt about the final outcome.  The green is pitched VERY hard from left to right, and it rends many pins almost unplayable.

16) Monroe, 195, Par 3.  Another great Ross routing brings this hole from high point to high point, with the green seemingly slipping of the front edge of the second hill.  Very neat.

17) Camp Creek, 540, Par 5.  This hole is very different from the other wide open holes on the course.  The Florida scrubland starts out well back from the fairway, but, along with a very deep bunker to the right, juts in to portect against the reckless golfer.  Excellent penultimate hole, allowing for several swings in fortune.

18) The Country Club, 430, Par 4.  One of the best finishers in the world.  The strategy is awesome, with loads of room to the right, but with the shortest route (higly coveted on this long par four into the wind) being along the bunkers on the left.  The green site is unbelievable, with the bunker in front and the flare in the back of the green making the hole the best aerial game hole I've ever seen.  To show the effect the wind has at the Country Club, I hit driver/5 wood over the back of 17, then at 18, only 30 yards longer, I hit driver/3 wood/Full Pitching Wedge to the middle of the green.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back