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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup course set up and US meltdown
« Reply #100 on: October 12, 2018, 09:08:42 AM »
As an independent in the Ryder Cup discussion, can someone help me understand why the setup is seen as so anti-USA?  If someone told me there was a tournament with narrow fairways and long rough I'd automatically think of the traditional US Open setups rather than the average Euro Tour stop.  Bethpage Black anyone? I understand that the current US Tour setup is all about scoring and those setups have bred a collection of bomb and gouge artists but as most of the Euro's play on the US Tour why is it that only the guys born in the US can't hit a fairway?  Are we saying that I should load up on Euros to win the next 3 or 4 US Opens?
Well, as a matter of fact, "non-U.S" players have won the US Open 50% of the time since 2001.  That's a slightly higher rate than either the PGA or the Masters, and I think the same as the British.
As to the course setup, perhaps the term "anti-US" is a little to strong.  Maybe a better way to think of the setup is valuing accuracy over length, both in terms of the height of the rough and the number of holes in which water comes into play.  I think the conventional wisdom was that the US team benefits less from such a setup that the Euros.  And for the record, I don't see anything wrong with that.  The guys that can hit it long and straight, like Justin Thomas, did just fine.
I'm mention this again: Mark Broadie's pre-match analysis had the RC as a tossup, course setup aside.  The idea that this was an massive upset is simply not supportable.  The margin, yes, but not the Euros winning.  That it is viewed as a massive upset by so many speaks directly to my take on this; the Euros somehow manage to maintain an underdog mentality year after year, and playing a sport as a talented underdog with something to prove and nothing to lose is the best way to play ANY sport.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Peter Pallotta

Re: Ryder Cup course set up and US meltdown
« Reply #101 on: October 12, 2018, 09:26:37 AM »
Broadie's analysis & toss-up prediction supports what I raised earlier in this thread, ie that the Euro win is not all that hard to understand, and the reasons for it not all that complicated, ie individually the Euro team-members are simply better golfers than their world rankings and fed-ex cup points and level of fame & media profile in the US would suggest. In other words: it's not that the American players are not great or that the American team is not superb; it's just that the Euros are just as great and their team just as superb. It's not Jim Furyk's fault or a function of golf course set-up that every 2 years all the talking heads save for the dispassionate Broadie types seem to forget that.
Peter
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 09:28:45 AM by Peter Pallotta »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup course set up and US meltdown
« Reply #102 on: October 12, 2018, 11:33:27 AM »
Brian,

I only see one real difference between a US Open setup/RC setup and everything else you see on the PGA Tour week in and week out.

The height setting of the blades when mowing the rough...


A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup course set up and US meltdown
« Reply #103 on: October 12, 2018, 01:20:04 PM »
Brian,

I only see one real difference between a US Open setup/RC setup and everything else you see on the PGA Tour week in and week out.

The height setting of the blades when mowing the rough...
Kalen,

To pick the nit on this, I'll add that in THIS particular RC case, there were arguably more holes on which longer hitters simply couldn't hit driver, and I don't mean that as a criticism.  On a "typical" US Open setup, you MUST hit driver, and then are faced with the extreme rough.  Erin Hills and Torrey leap to mind.

That was what made Mickelson's comments this week so unappealing.  Effectively, he was saying "I want to whale away, and if I can't, it's a waste of my time."  A series of unfortunate word choices, which is a specialty of his.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup course set up and US meltdown
« Reply #104 on: October 12, 2018, 01:30:05 PM »
AG agreed.  Another important difference, length with narrowness.


And I don't have any doubt this was deliberately done because the mindset on the PGA Tour is bomb and gouge all day every day, almost without exception.  And for some of the Americans, its seems they just couldn't resist even knowing the harsh penalty that awaits...


P.S.  Other than Rory, was there any other true bombers on the Euro side? Rose is long, but he seems to play more strategic.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup course set up and US meltdown
« Reply #105 on: October 23, 2018, 02:19:05 PM »

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup course set up and US meltdown
« Reply #106 on: October 23, 2018, 04:47:43 PM »
Apart from struggling to follow Azinger's point it comes across as sour grapes.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup course set up and US meltdown
« Reply #107 on: October 23, 2018, 05:54:56 PM »
Jon,

I like Azinger's style and comments in general, but couldn't agree more here.... its totally Sour Grapes.

They're all playing the same holes and with the players' insane skill sets, I don't understand why the US players can't/won't adapt on a tight track where they absolutely know they have to be in the fairway...