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Steve_ Shaffer

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Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« on: September 20, 2018, 03:24:48 PM »
BETHLEHEM, Pa. - Bethlehem City Council supported borrowing $1.75 million and applying for grants to benefit the Bethlehem Golf Club during Tuesday night's meeting.
The vote was 5-2, with Councilwomen Paige Van Wirt and Olga Negron dissenting.
The city will pay about $130,000 a year in annual debt service for 20 years. The bond is backed by the city's taxing power.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/lehigh-valley/bethlehem-city-councilman-a-lot-of-social-benefits-to-golf-/797056299
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 03:43:40 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jim Sherma

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 09:21:54 PM »
This is good news for a course that could use some love. Beth Muni is a William and David Gordon track that is very solid if on a somewhat uninspiring piece of ground. Long at 7000+ par 71 and a good set of greens typical of the era. Growing up in the early '80's with persimmon the whites played north of 6500 and the fairways were gang-mowers pulled by a tractor resulting in little roll. Everyone who played high school golf in Bethlehem then learned to swing hard at the ball.


During the late '80-early '90's all of the original flash faced bunkers had their lips rolled down creating awkward looking flat bottom bunkers throughout. Other than this and some pretty significant green shrinkage the course is as built.


Hopefully they can get the original green complexes back. They were very good. Strong and interesting holes included 3, 5, 9, 11-13 and 17.

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2019, 01:22:04 PM »
Jim,
Just came across this old thread and had to post.  I would beg to differ with you on your comment about "a somewhat uninspiring piece of ground".  Go take a look at the tree work done over the winter/last six or so months and you will see that much of the clutter has been removed, short and long range views have been re-opened back up, and ugly backdrops behind greens cleared out,... The topography is outstanding actually.  It was just hidden with over plantings of evergreens.  Many of grassing lines are/will be changing and much needed drainage work has started.  Bunker work and green expansions/modifications will happen in the fall.  Most of the greens have shrunk and their edges near bunkers have been raised from years of sand being tossed on to them.  Also don't think that all the bunkers were originally high flashed sand.  This is not a "restoration" but that was highly unlikely to have been the case.  They won't end up as all grass faced flat bottom bunkers but they also won't be high flashed sand which can be a maintenance nightmare.  Think more Flynn-like in bunker shaping and style but less formulaic in location and number than you might normally see on a Gordon design.  Many new tees will be added (and ugly ones removed) as well to improve playability for the shorter hitting golfers.  Right now the course is too long for many.  Stay tuned  ;)

Best,
Mark
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 01:23:48 PM by Mark_Fine »

B.Ross

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2019, 01:34:22 PM »
we'd rotate play amongst the muni, allentown muni and locust valley down in what i believe was coopersburg. all 3 had great gordon family bones from what i recall / understand but could use some green expansion / tee removal / bunker TLC. of course this was a while ago now.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 06:28:09 PM by Eden_Road »

Jim Sherma

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 09:35:24 PM »
Mark - played Bethlehem a few weeks ago and the work is pretty stunning, especially the view down 1 up to 8’s tee. The land has some movement but mostly broad slopes like the stretch from 4 up to the northern border as well as the slope that has most of 10, all of 11-14, most of 15 and then 17 and 18. Not much happening and the Gordon’s did a very good job with what was there in my opinion. The bunkers that stick out in my memory most were the ones on 3, 6, 7, 14, 15 and 17. I beli be the right bunker on 13 is one that is still similar to the way they were all shaped with green->fringe->bunker with sharp edges and no rough. There were no rolled over faces with rough in the early and mid 80’s (the abomination of the little strip of sand short right of 11’s green as the one weird I exception that could not have been original). Unfortunately I have no photos from that era.

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 10:06:48 PM »
BRoss,
All those things you mention will be happening.


Jim,
Glad you like the work so far.  Just remember the course was built in the 50's not the 80's.  Nothing wrong with broad slopes but I would argue that the land has more going for it than just that.  Wait till the rest of the work is done and then draw your conclusions. 


Best,
Mark

Jim Sherma

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2019, 08:22:34 PM »
Mark - Looking forward to it. I pretty much lived there from 1979-1984 when I graduated Liberty High School. I had the sense not much had changed between the opening and what I saw back then. Still play it now and then when visiting. Do you have any old photos you could post? I would love to see the course before the bunkers were reworked.

Michael J. Moss

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 03:39:26 PM »
Mark,

Good luck with the renovation. As a Lehigh University undergrad ('76), Beth Muni was our go to track. A lot of good memories from those days. Never knew it was a William and David Gordon design. The Weyhill course at Saucon Valley might be their best, both by the architects and of the Club's. I prefer it to Stanwich...better land. I'd love to see some photos!

MCirba

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 03:48:58 PM »
I need to get out there again this year if I can ever get out of work.  :P
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Joe Bausch

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2019, 09:01:10 PM »
Mark,

Good luck with the renovation. As a Lehigh University undergrad ('76), Beth Muni was our go to track. A lot of good memories from those days. Never knew it was a William and David Gordon design. The Weyhill course at Saucon Valley might be their best, both by the architects and of the Club's. I prefer it to Stanwich...better land. I'd love to see some photos!


http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Bethlehem/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2019, 08:11:21 AM »
Joe,
Thanks for posting.  I used to be able to post photos (can't do it anymore).  If someone can explain how I will try to put up some before and after. 

For those of you who know the course, get out there to see the changes in the last year.  They are dramatic but there is much more to come.  Always nice to see the course before and after.
Mark

Jim Sherma

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2019, 09:17:41 AM »
The stretch from the first up the valley to the 8th tee is stunning. The shaping of the greens are much more prominent after all of the pines were removed between the 1st and 8th greens. They had us teeing off from the combined 1st and 10th box up and to the right of the normal first tee. While it really neuters the 10th hole, that raised box does make the new visuals down the first fairway pretty stunning.


Also, seeing the natural surface drainage patterns coming down the channel across the first fairway was neat given how many times I had played there and never saw the contours in that way.


While I believe that Bethlehem has very strong bones and can be an exceptional layout I am not sure that the public golf market is looking for a long and tough course like that. The best "games" in the area have always been at Wedgewood and Green Pond. Both are shorter courses that a lot of different types of games and ages can be competitive on. These include older players that are short hitters but very strong from inside 125 yards or so. At Bethlehem the longer players have a much greater relative advantage and many of these types of older players can not compete there. I think this limits the diversity of the groups that can enjoy competing there.

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2019, 09:19:59 AM »
Jim,
I agree!  We will be adding many new "shorter" and better located tees.  You might have noticed the new one on #1.  It is just growing in.
As I said, stay tuned.
Mark

B.Ross

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2019, 02:09:46 PM »
for those of us with ties to the area yet no longer live anywhere near it, some before & after pics of what they've done to the muni would be sweet. i tried looking on social media but to no avail...

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2019, 07:53:04 PM »
Anyone in the Eastern PA area who wants to see a renovation project underway should swing by Bethlehem GC.  The course is still open for play for now with temporary greens on five of the front nine holes.  As more work gets going the course will eventually close.  A ton of tree work has already been completed (more coming)as well as extensive drainage work but now the bunker renovations and green surrounds changes are happening. 

Joe Bausch

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2019, 08:15:24 PM »
Anyone in the Eastern PA area who wants to see a renovation project underway should swing by Bethlehem GC.  The course is still open for play for now with temporary greens on five of the front nine holes.  As more work gets going the course will eventually close.  A ton of tree work has already been completed (more coming)as well as extensive drainage work but now the bunker renovations and green surrounds changes are happening.


I’m going to try and visit soon, Mark. Sounds exciting.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

MCirba

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2019, 11:17:23 AM »
Good to see this happening.  Will try to swing by soon, as well.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2019, 05:27:49 PM »
Yes it has been happening (the rain this week slowed us down).  I don't pursue many municipal projects but this is a good one.  The goal (several have emailed me asking) is to get most of the bunker work done by year end weather permitting.  We will see how it goes but as I said, if you want to see a course undergoing extensive renovation work, swing by at your convenience.  If you mention my name they will likely give you a cart to have a look.  Just respect the roped off areas and golfers who are out there. 

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2019, 10:04:10 AM »


Course correction: How Bethlehem turned around its cash-strapped golf course in one year




Course renovation and financial improvement....


Read the details!




https://www.mcall.com/news/local/bethlehem/mc-nws-bethlehem-golf-course-correction-20191228-zhbnqahbfrf4pfiehvcqx5jwqe-story.html
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 10:05:45 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joe Bausch

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2020, 03:11:39 AM »
Me and Cirba dropped by Bethlehem very recently.


Here is how the course looks now:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Bethlehem_2020/index.html


To compare and contrast, here is how this course (originally opened in 1956 and designed by the Gordons) looked in 2014:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Bethlehem/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2020, 08:14:34 AM »
Joe and Mike,
Thanks for posting.  Hope you guys enjoyed it.  Still needs a bit more time to grow in and some normal touch up but there was a rush to get open by May 1st. More work will be done in the fall such as tees and paths,... 


Joe Bausch

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2020, 10:23:50 AM »
Joe and Mike,
Thanks for posting.  Hope you guys enjoyed it.  Still needs a bit more time to grow in and some normal touch up but there was a rush to get open by May 1st. More work will be done in the fall such as tees and paths,...

We had a real nice time, Mark.  And icing on the cake was being paired with two gentlemen that were absolute riots.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2020, 10:29:42 AM »
Joe,
That is great.  The regulars really enjoy it and you know how many don't like change. Tee sheet is full every day.  Glad you had fun!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 10:34:56 AM by Mark_Fine »

Mark_Fine

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2020, 07:43:47 AM »
Jim/Michael,
Meant to ask, have you guys been out to play Bethlehem as well?  I know you both are very familiar with the original layout.  Anxious to see what you think?  We modified almost every green and tied them into the new bunkering.  I think the greens are now one of the best sets in the area.  If you know Gordon/Flynn you will love them.  We added what I call pull-ups and roll-offs that are prominent on Flynn’s best designs.  Gordon as you all know worked under Flynn.  Email me if you’d like as well.  Same for anyone else (Joe/Mike would enjoy your comments).  New super on board as well (he was at Northampton).   

Jim Sherma

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Re: Bethlehem GC muni in Bethlehem, PA news...
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2020, 02:24:06 PM »
Played Bethlehem yesterday for the first time since the work was finished. I grew up on this course and between 1978 and 1984 I was on it around 200 days out of the year. The $185 junior resident season pass was a great deal. Glad to see that they finally put some good money into the course as I always felt that it was a really good layout with a very good set of Gordon greens. I played form where the old white stones were at a little over 6500 yards. I have played the course sporadically over the years since 1984 when I started college and stopped playing there regularly.


General thoughts - the green-side bunkers originally had flashed faces that were cut right to the fringes on most greens (would love to see some photos of that time period). There was significant sand buildup onto the fringes and green surfaces associated with this style. The course rolled down the lips down and made primarily flat bottomed bunkers back in the late 80's or in the 90's. I don't believe that the buildups were addressed at that point. Also, there has been pretty significant green shrinkage over the years based on my memory. Looking at the green surrounds now the high points of sand build up were the edges of the original bunkers and cut to fringe, the greens took off from there. At this point those high points are in rough and at least a few feet from the current green edges. Greens that struck me as very noticeably shrunken over the decades are 1, 4 and 8.


Overall the course doesn't not play very differently than it always has. The amount of movement in the greens is pretty astonishing as I did not remember thinking the greens were anything dramatic. Granted I had a small comparison set at that time. Also, it is very possible that decades of top-dressing accentuated some of the features and made them more dramatic than what was there in the past. The bunker build work is very nicely done to my eye, but I have no knowledge one way or the other to critique it further.


Specific thoughts -


  • The tree removal between the first and eighth greens is wonderful. Visually it looks great and really lets the amount of movement on and around the greens come to the fore
  • The fairway bunkers between 2 and 3 were always an afterthought and never maintained in any decent way - the rebuild is very nice and given the length that guys hit the ball today the ones on the left side of 2 are definitely in play - the mound at the front right of the green was always the vertex that dictated everything on this hole
  • Three is more changed than most holes - The right side of 3's fairway has been cleared out over the years - there were more pines and a couple of big bushes on the right side of the fairway as well as one big bush down the left side - the tee ball is definitely more forgiving in the current iteration - the left green-side bunker was removed and the area is now cut at fairway height - back in the day the two green-side bunkers were steeply flashed up to the collar and this was a very difficult green to hit - the left side is now a bailout but with the sand-splashed knob left in the fringe and bleeding into the green it is not an easy recovery from there - the changes are well done given the clientele
  • The right miss on four is significantly more forgiving - Used to be a deep flashed bunker on the right that you would beg to get into because the turf was always very thin with a couple of bushes and some trees over to the right of the bunker that were much worse
  • 5 is essentially unchanged other than the inside of the dog-leg becoming more and more grown in - did not remember the green being as dramatic as it is
  • 6 is essentially unchanged other than bunker work - the fairway bunker on the left was never maintained and losing it is no loss - the trees that have grown in behind 4's green on the left side 6 hurts the chance to get the angle along the green's long axis - Always was a tough green to hold from the right half of the fairway or right rough - filling in the left-rear bunker doesn't change the hole significantly and makes the recovery easier for average players
  • 7 - cutting down the knob on the front of the green was necessary as it had become almost impossible to hold the green for any pin other than the front left placement - back in the day we used to try to blow our drives down to the right of the green if the pin was on that side of the green. As the trees and bushes grew in down there that play was taken out of play - the fairway bunker is a thing of beauty even if it should never come into play for longer players
  • 8 - effectively unchanged - bunkers rebuilt, tree removal and green shrinkage not withstanding
  • 9 - fairway bunker put right where I would try to land my drives - definitely well placed and changes the hole significantly
  • 10-11 no real changes
  • 12 - clearing out the right side of the fairway makes this hole significantly more forgiving off of the tee - moving the left green-side bunker forward was an interesting choice - I would like to hear the thinking on that
  • 13 - fairway bunker makes an historically difficult hole tougher - With the wall of pines up the left this is now a very demanding driving hole
  • 14 - unchanged - the short bunker on the right never served much purpose other than added pain for a bad swing
  • 15 - reclaiming the depressions behind the green as run-off areas is a plus from what was there - the original rear bunkers served the purpose but they had not been there for a long time - As the turf on the front right firms up it will be interesting to see how it plays - as on 3 leaving the sand-splash ridge line makes it a demanding chip/putt/pitch choice - moving the front left bunker forward adds risk to the old school method of trying to run the approach down the slope from short left onto the green
  • 16 - effectively unchanged - the two short bunkers at the top of the hill were never maintained and nothing other than aesthetic
  • 17 - effectively unchanged
  • 18 - Seemed more open off the tee than it had become over the years - the shaping on the left side of the green looked good - but I could not remember too clearly what was there - I remembered more of a knob but not sure 


All in all it was great to see Bethlehem get some sprucing up. The fact that the cart paths were still kind of crumbling made me believe that the money was well spent on things that mattered. 3, 4, 12 and 15 likely will play easier on average. I don't think anything was made to play more difficult. It is still a very good course that is on the more challenging end of the spectrum. Also, the course always was too hard for the average public golfer, so this is likely for the good of their business.

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