Hit by the ball. Implications?

[Jeff Schley]

I’ve read comments that tour players know that shouting “fore” at distances of more than 250 yards is a waste of time as the sound of a human shouting is inaudible (or as good as) at that distance.  Does anyone know if that’s true?  Or is it an excuse being used for  a lack of basic etiquette and good sense?

James,


at 250 yards the shout would be easily audible.

Wouldn't that depend on background noise, e.g. from the crowds? 

Wind also might have an effect.

. Yes.  Not to mention who is yelling and the decibels they could generate.

[Jon Wiggett]

I’ve read comments that tour players know that shouting “fore” at distances of more than 250 yards is a waste of time as the sound of a human shouting is inaudible (or as good as) at that distance.  Does anyone know if that’s true?  Or is it an excuse being used for  a lack of basic etiquette and good sense?

James,


at 250 yards the shout would be easily audible.

Wouldn't that depend on background noise, e.g. from the crowds? 

Wind also might have an effect.

. Yes.  Not to mention who is yelling and the decibels they could generate.

and if they dropped dead before they were able to shout or maybe were looking the other way so didn't see their ball. The list of reasons why not is endless but is not a reason to simply not try 

[JLahrman]

I've seen a couple youtube vids of the persimmon era, where spectators got drilled by a necked driver.  Literally less than 25 yards off the tee box and to the side. 



Actually, one was Tom Kite at Bellerive:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMKVbuo_WSg

I still remember watching that shot live on TV. It was hard to believe, Kite was coming off his US Open victory and was one of the top ranked pros at that time. I worked in the bag shop at a well-known club for a while when it was run by a very well-respected club pro who was also an excellent player. During my time there I only saw him hit one shot - and it was almost identical to Kite's shot, off the first tee in some sort of event. I couldn't believe it. Happens to the best of them, I guess.


With respect to this woman's case, I have no idea of the particulars of French law. This business about shouting fore doesn't hold any weight in my opinion, and certainly there is some assumption of risk on the part of the spectator at golf events and other sporting events where the ball or equipment might enter the crowd. But if the tournament has been set up with spectator viewing areas in spots that are fairly likely to be in the drop zone of a reasonable miss, it seems like the tournament could have some liability. I'm don't think we need to examine shot dispersion charts when creating gallery viewing spots or anything like that, but there should be some sense applied to where the gallery collection areas are. That's not to say that isn't already happening but it sounds like this woman was in an area where it wouldn't take much of a miss for the ball to land in the gallery.

[Kalen Braley]

Apparently its an epidemic now...  why can't people just golf thier ball straight.. 


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/another-spectator-injured-by-golf-ball-this-time-at-dunhill-links/ar-BBNVi8k?li=BBnb7Kz

[Jerry Kluger]

The only way the spectator could sue in the US would be if there was negligence by the tournament in the course setup where an injury was reasonably foreseeable.  Those of us in the US have seen spectators at baseball games hit while sitting in the stands and the assumption of risk notice on the back of the ticket has been sufficient to defend any lawsuit.  Hockey has also seen was very bad injuries and I believe as a result of the severe injury at one game to a young girl, I believe they expanded the netting around the arenas.  It would be nearly impossible to protect spectators at a golf tournament short of putting them in enclosed stands.  Just think about how many spectators at a golf tournament aren't even looking at the players - texting or emailing or talking with someone. So while the injury was certainly unfortunate if not tragic, that doesn't mean that someone has to be held financially liable.

[Jeff Schley]

I’ve read comments that tour players know that shouting “fore” at distances of more than 250 yards is a waste of time as the sound of a human shouting is inaudible (or as good as) at that distance.  Does anyone know if that’s true?  Or is it an excuse being used for  a lack of basic etiquette and good sense?

James,


at 250 yards the shout would be easily audible.

Wouldn't that depend on background noise, e.g. from the crowds? 

Wind also might have an effect.

. Yes.  Not to mention who is yelling and the decibels they could generate.

and if they dropped dead before they were able to shout or maybe were looking the other way so didn't see their ball. The list of reasons why not is endless but is not a reason to simply not try 

Jon,

YOU DA MAN! GET IN THE HOLE! MASHED POTATOES!  FORE!

That was from 3,000 miles, did it come through?  I tried.

[Dave Doxey]

Shot tracking technology has advanced to the point where a laser cannon could be linked in and programmed to vaporize golf balls that veer off of a safe track,  Stroke and distance.... 

[Joe_Tucholski]

Hockey has also seen was very bad injuries and I believe as a result of the severe injury at one game to a young girl, I believe they expanded the netting around the arenas...So while the injury was certainly unfortunate if not tragic, that doesn't mean that someone has to be held financially liable.

As a Columbus fan I can confirm a young girl was killed as a result of a deflected puck hitting her in the head.  The lawsuit was settled out of court and $1.2 million was paid.  There is not a net all the way around the rink but only behind the goals where shots are likely to strike with high velocity.  Similarly there are large nets behind home plate at baseball games.  Squash moved away from a hard ball to a soft ball.

I have to believe there are people thinking about ways to make PGA events safer for spectators.

[Jim Nugent]

Shot tracking technology has advanced to the point where a laser cannon could be linked in and programmed to vaporize golf balls that veer off of a safe track,  Stroke and distance.... 

Just hack the programming, vaporize several Euro shots at key matches, and the US might actually have a shot at winning. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

A legal analysis:


https://www.si.com/golf/2018/10/02/ryder-cup-spectator-brooks-koepka-eye-injury-lawsuit

[Kevin_Reilly]

Wow, all the "funny" or "clever" posts in a thread about a woman that lost an eye. 

[Thomas Dai]

Wow, all the "funny" or "clever" posts in a thread about a woman that lost an eye.

+1. Very disappointing. It's an extremely serious matter for those directly involved and there are many potential implications.
atb

[Jon Wiggett]

Kevin & Thomas,


if it is making fun of the woman or the situation she has found herself in I would agree. I disagree however with the premise that there is no place for humour in such discussions for it is humour that makes people human and a discussion devoid of humour also lacks humanity, hope and depth.

[Thomas Dai]

Unfortunately a further incident occurred yesterday when a lady spectator was hit on the head by a shot played by Tyrrell Hatton during the Dunhill Cup at Kingsbarns.
atb

[jeffwarne]

Unfortunately a further incident occurred yesterday when a lady spectator was hit on the head by a shot played by Tyrrell Hatton during the Dunhill Cup at Kingsbarns.
atb

I have always found the idea that someone would aim into the crowd on purpose repugnant(as was suggested about Van de Velde)
It was also suggested that he got a bad break by hitting the railing.
I'd say this thread details what a bad break really is.

[JLahrman]

Hockey has also seen was very bad injuries and I believe as a result of the severe injury at one game to a young girl, I believe they expanded the netting around the arenas...So while the injury was certainly unfortunate if not tragic, that doesn't mean that someone has to be held financially liable.

As a Columbus fan I can confirm a young girl was killed as a result of a deflected puck hitting her in the head.  The lawsuit was settled out of court and $1.2 million was paid.  There is not a net all the way around the rink but only behind the goals where shots are likely to strike with high velocity.  Similarly there are large nets behind home plate at baseball games.  Squash moved away from a hard ball to a soft ball.

I have to believe there are people thinking about ways to make PGA events safer for spectators.

I was living in Columbus at the time...if I recall correctly it wasn't the actual blow to the head caused by the puck that proved to be fatal. It was the way her snapped back, and caused some sort of damage in her neck. It was really tragic.

[D_Malley]

I wonder how often spectators are hit by golf balls during the pro-am each week?
Sure there are probably alot less fans on pro-am days but also alot more errant shots.


I was at Aronimink on pro-am day and witnessed a group tee off on #11, two am tee shots in a row were hit low and left about head high. fortunately no one was hit, but it could have easily been very bad if someone caught one of those balls in the head.

[Dave McCollum]

In fact, a similar accident happen at our course during regular recreational play.  A woman teed off on a hole that parallels a boundary road.  The road is out of bounds.  Her drive hooked OOB and struck an off-duty cop who was jogging on the road, also in the eye and causing serious loss of vision.  We were never sued, but the woman golfer and her family were.  Fortunately, they had liability coverage as part of their home owners insurance and some sort of settlement was reached.  Since we weren't directly involved, I don't know the details.  However, the golfer and her family are good friends and had been long time members of our club.  The experience proved so traumatic for her, they left our course for another club and I am not sure she has ever played here again.  Her husband was one of our best players, several times our club champion, frequent competitor in state amateur events, a supplier of all of our irrigation repair parts, and such a close friend that I used to practice and play with him almost every week.  It was a great loss to our club culture because a group of low handicap buddies he played with also left with him.  Also a great loss for me and my staff because we were all so close to him, valued his insight, and missed seeing him on a weekly basis.


This happened 6-8 years ago, so at the time we became familiar with legal cases mentioned here and the liability issues involved in State and US law.  Basically, all golfers hit bad shots and subject themselves to risk when they play the game.  Accidents happen.  People get hurt.  Most of my maintenance people have been hit (several times) and wear protective gear.  They are trained to get out the golfers way when working during play.  Yet sometimes they don't see players and some golfers don't wait until they are seen and the course workers can move aside.  They fire away.  Very dumb, especially given the ordeal my friends went through.  We've been lucky and accidents are rare.  Not in this instance, but the majority involve alcohol and very occasional, once-a-year type golfers playing in some scramble or sponsored event.  Like everything else, people do stupid things.                 

[Thomas Dai]

U.K. golf clubs carry statutory insurance but players should not assume that U.K. golf clubs carry insurance for players shots hitting other players or vehicles etc etc.
A friend of mine broke the window of a car with a shot and had to pay for the repairs out of his own pocket. Thankfully it was only window damage, no physical injury was sustained or caused. He had no golf policy insurance, which is easily available in the U.K. for very little money. Buggy users should be particularly careful, especially if they own the buggy themselves rather than use one hired from the club.
Atb

[Sean_A]

A big part of my leaving a club was due to a death of a deaf man crossing a road while playing. I suggested a few years earlier that it would be safer to alter the numbering of the holes whereby the road was crossed less and a few long walks were also eliminated. I was told it was more important to have two loops of nine holes. When the club refused to renumber the holes after the death, I walked away figuring one day it will happen again and the club will rightfully be sued out of existence. I have no time for this sort of myopic thinking.


Ciao