[archie_struthers]

 




Lots of older courses are in need of irrigation repairs and or replacement , but without the budget to fund a costly new system . I loved the piece Don Mahaffey did for us a few years back. 


Given the crazy costs , why do so many operators buy in to the industry / bureaucracy that pushes wall to wall water upon us ?

[jeffwarne]

Given the crazy costs , why do so many operators buy in to the industry / bureaucracy that pushes wall to wall water upon us ?

See pushup/USGA green discussion.


OT but it really cracks me up that anyone who could borrow Shinnecock for a week(twice) and present such AWFUL surfaces for our National Championship should NOT be telling anyone what to do with their greens

[Jon Wiggett]

Archie,


admittedly Northern Scotland has not the most arid of climates but this year has been really dry and we had a couple of month of (for us) high-ish temperatures. Despite this and not having any irrigation my place showed no signs of burning out though the growth on the greens slowed down considerably and I was unable to give them their second (and last) feed of the season as there was no rain to wash it in.


However, after the rain of the last few weeks they are growing well again and the sward has thickened up a bit again. I do not think it is necessary to have irrigation in most of the UK but do think that snap on points close to the greens to allow hand watering is a good thing.


Jon

[Mark_Fine]

We will eventually need much less water, 1) because it will be in short supply and expensive, and 2) because the new strains of grasses will  require less.  If Augusta National turned off their water and didn't maintain their course so perfectly green "from wall to wall" it would expedite the process and believe that everything needs to be green 

[SB]

Golf course maintenance is very important to golfers, whether we like it or not.  The expectation is ever higher and the reality is that people do make their decisions based on how well a course is maintained, private or public.


That said, I've been involved with multiple properties all across the quality spectrum, most of which did not have unlimited water resources.  Many started to get brown during droughts.  Many did not have irrigated roughs.  Many had 40 year old systems that were constantly breaking.  We hardly ever received complaints, even during the worst droughts.  Everyone accepted that it didn't rain, therefore the grass got brown.  I wouldn't go as far as to say they liked it, or that brown is the new green, just that most people understood and it didn't affect our business.  We did rain dances, and we kept the rest of the course in great shape.  All was well. 




In my opinion, the cost/benefit of a new irrigation system at $1M-$2M makes absolutely no sense to me unless except in extremely rare instances.  One case where it did make sense was where the mainline was made out of some ancient material (asbestos, I think) that was literally crumbling.  We weren't getting leaks at joints, the entire pipe was disintegrating.  It was getting to the point where we couldn't even get water on greens consistently.  That one made sense, just to stay in business.


 

[archie_struthers]

 


Great replies surely more to come . Certainly the USGA greens construction thread got me thinking 🤔


Tom Paul (TEP) wrote some fabulous pieces on maintenance meld , something that probably doesn’t get enough focus . It’s often that the  right mm will allow great GCA to shine thru.


One man is responsible for two of my favorite golf days , a sure time Hall of Fame superintendent named Dick Bator !
He is arguably the best ever at what he did , and his ability to maintain a golf course was otherworldly!


Circle back to Pine Valley 1979 and Bator has taken over the reins of this legendary golf course. He cleans out loads of brush , brings faster green speeds and firmness to the turf and utterly changes the way the ball reacts. The place vaults up the ratings and has stayed there ever since. He later does perhaps a more amazing job at Atlantic City CC in Northfield , NJ another venerable club here in South  Jersey. I say this because he did it almost single handedly , without the resources of PVGC behind him .


Now for the two days:


It’s Bators’ second year and he was still seething 😤 that there were whispers that he had declawed the beast . Bob Lewis had shot 64 in qualifying the previous year , and scores were very low. Bators revenge would come the following year.


I’m caddying and first one off in the Crump qualifier of 1981. It’s still a little hot and humid but the turf was glistening , and the first couple tee shots rolled out almost to the woods on number 1, a dogleg right . The second shots reacted similarly , and it’s shocking to me how firm the course seems . Almost immediately it appears that today is different than any other day at PV , and strategy needs to be altered accordingly !


It was almost like Bator took a giant syringe and sucked all the extra water out of the turf it was so firm. The other thing is he set the pins , oops . Only two guys broke 80 if memory serves and 85 got in the championship flight. Despite the screams of unfair I know he secretly loved that day ! Me too.


Atlantic City CC four months after Bator takes over and the Sonny Fraser Memorial qualifier is held in the spring. Once again that shine and maintenance meld is right there for all to see . I get to play (some hacks got an invite) and it’s so fun watching the ball roll and roll ! Every little nuance on this hugely fun golf course is magnified and despite playing lousy I had a ball trying to figure the angles .


Got a little off but I’m so frustrated that so few buy in to the ideal maintenance meld . Back to the topic it requires far less water 💦 but lots of golf IQ to appreciate how cool this can be . It does however put some real pressure on a superintendent , this may be a big reason it’s so hard to sell . Much easier to cover every square inch with heads and use the controllers and computers. I’m still a fan of quick couplers and hand work on greens , particularly here in the mid Atlantic 

[Don Mahaffey]

Only enough to support good golfing turf.

Weird how everything keeps getting better but somehow that means more components in the ground are needed. 

[Peter Pallotta]

Only enough to support good golfing turf.

+1
And: only enough turf to support good golf.

[Peter Pallotta]

And this, from SBusch:

"We hardly ever received complaints, even during the worst droughts.  Everyone accepted that it didn't rain, therefore the grass got brown.  I wouldn't go as far as to say they liked it, or that brown is the new green, just that most people understood and it didn't affect our business."

So important. So true. Matches my experience (from the other side) exactly, i.e. no golfer I've ever played with has *not* understood, or ever complained.

Which is to say: sometimes I think most of this talk about 'what golfers expect' is the worst kind of self-serving inside baseball, one industry person talking to the next, one hand washing the other. 


 

[Thomas Dai]

I doubt it’s as much as most folk reckon.
Perhaps more extensive use of moisture measuring equipment will highlight this.
Unless that is, the irrigation system manufacturers start buying-up the companies who make moisture measuring equipment!
Atb

[Sean_A]

Some of the biggest selling points for new irrigation systems are more efficient use of water and less wastage...that equals less irrigation.  It would be interesting to know if less water is being used with new systems.  To me, it seems rather obvious that the system is only as good as the guy pushing the buttons.

This is all a rather touchy subject.  I wonder how many supers out there would like to turn the water down but fear the results could end with a pink slip?

Ciao

[Mark_Fine]

Sean,
Your statement about the newer systems using less water is very true.  They are able to pin point the water to just where it is needed rather than just throwing water everywhere.  You can for example just do a light syringing of the greens without soaking the surrounds and the approaches.  The problem is when a membership spends a few million dollars on an irrigation system they expect their golf course to be lush and “green”.  They don’t understand that grass that is a little stressed will drive roots deeper and become much healthier than grass that is routinely watered every day.  Supers feel compelled to use their new system more than they should.  They want to please their members and why take any risks and push things if you don’t have to?  It goes back to the wall to wall green theory. 


One thing Golf Digest did which I like (I know many here complain about their rankings) is promote in their training that the grass doesn’t have to be green to offer a great playing surface and that some courses really should not be too soft and green because it is unnatural and they were not designed to look or play that way.  I have said in the past if I come across and a course that is soft (not because it rained but because it is normally kept that way) and over manicured to the point it looks fake I will often downgrade it for conditioning.  Last thing for example you want is a green and soft links course.  Last time I played Maidstone it was a little brown and a little rough on the edges, I loved it!  Playing surfaces were flawless in my opinion. 

[Thomas Dai]

To add to the various aspects of potential over-irrigation I would like to add one word - "thatch' - and all the issues that comes with it.
atb

[archie_struthers]

 


Thanks to all our superintendents on board here who work hard most every day to make it fun for us . Wish more of you would chime in on this issue !


You do have most of the pressure to stay green on your back

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