[David_Tepper]

Does anyone know if there is data that tracks how many different clubs a PGA tour pro uses in a typical round and how often each of those clubs is used? The mention of restricting tour pros to 10 clubs in their bag on another thread got me thinking about this.


If you start with an average score of 70 and back out 30 putts, that leaves 40 shots taken over a round. Maybe drivers are hit 12 times a round and some type of wedge is used another 12 times a round. That leaves 16 shots to be hit by the remaining 9 clubs in the bag.

My guess is the typical tour pro rarely uses more than 10 different clubs in his bag in any given round and could very likely shoot the same scores leaving 4 clubs in his locker at the start of every round. 

[JESII]

Agreed.


They would adjust yardage’s to meet the gaps for clubs from 225 down to 125, turning 8 clubs into 4 and lose fractions of a stroke.

[Michael Wolf]

David,


I just texted one of the players I represent to ask him. His answer, as you might expect is "it depends".


- Definitely doesn't use all 14 each day. But guesses he probably uses all 14 over the course of 4 day tourney.
- 4-5-6 get hit the least, but how often depends on par 3 setups from week to week
- Definitely doesn't average 12 drivers a round
- If he was allowed unlimited clubs, he guesses he'd carry about 16, adding a 5th wedge and using both a hybrid and 5w


Hope this helps.


There is no official Tour data broken down by club, because no way of knowing what each payer used each shot. Only reason announcers know what players in lead are using is because caddies are signaling to McCord or Feherty or whoever is walking with them.


Also, keep in mind that their are huge differences in loft, lie, length etc from pro to pro's 8 irons, for instance. Astonishing amount of tinkering week to week. Often, I think, because they are bored on the range on Tuesday mornings and they have unlimited access to equipment vans. So when DJ says he didn't hit an approach to a par 4 with a club longer than a 7 iron, his 7 irons could be a LOT different length, loft etc than what we think of for a 7 iron.


Michael

[Peter Pallotta]

Interesting post, Michael, thanks.


David - don't even have a guess but (related to Michael's last point), from the PGA.com report of Tiger's 1st round 62 at Aronomink:
"Woods did his part in the scorching air at Aronimink that made the 7,267-yard course feel like a pitch-and-putt. He didn't hit anything longer than a 9-iron into the par 4s, and didn't miss a green until his 14th hole."
That sure reduces the number of clubs used in a round.
And, at least in Tiger's case, he's noted that he still uses traditional iron lofts, i.e. his 9 iron is 45 degrees, his PW about 49. 

[David_Tepper]

Michael W. -

Thanks for your informative response.

My guess is the pros, knowing the lengths of the holes (especially the par-3's) on any given day, could take 4 clubs out of their bag and pretty much shoot the same scores. The 4 clubs left behind would likely vary from day to day.

And, as we all know, today's 9-iron (in terms of loft and shaft length) is pretty close to a 7-iron of 30-40 years ago.

DT   

[Mark_Fine]

David,
Limiting the number of clubs might force more creativity but unless you take out all the clubs that the pros hit 300+ yards which for many is most of their woods, I am not sure what you accomplish?  If someone like Koepka was asked what clubs he would need at Erin Hills he would have likely said, a Driver, a three wood, an 8I, 9I, three wedges and a putter.  He hit nothing more than an 8I into any of the par fours.  With those eight clubs, he might have to get creative on one or two par threes and might have to "chip" a three wood on one or two of the par fives.  7800 yards still wouldn't be much of an issue for him.
Mark 

[David_Tepper]

Mark -
I am certainly not advocating limiting the tour pros to 10 clubs. I was just curious to know whether most of them, as a practical matter, use more than 8 or 9 clubs in their bag during a given round.
DT

[Duncan Cheslett]

This reminds me of the famous Henry Ford quote regarding advertising.


A tour pro is likely only to use half his clubs in any given round...




...the trouble is, he doesn't know which half!

[Adrian_Stiff]

My guess would be 11 or 12. Rarely all 14.

[David_Tepper]

"A tour pro is likely only to use half his clubs in any given round...the trouble is, he doesn't know which half!"

Duncan -

I would beg to differ. My guess is a good number of pros (and their caddies) have a very good idea of what clubs they will be hitting over the course of their round when they head to the 1st tee.

If they were required to leave 4 clubs in their locker and play with 10 clubs, they could do that quite easily.

DT 

[Duncan Cheslett]

I'm sure you're right David.


I seem to remember a story about Ben Hogan leaving his 7 iron out of his bag at one championship because "there is no 7 iron shot on that course!"

[Nick Ribeiro]

I've seen the commentators make a big deal of tour pros using a driver 1/2/3 times during a round. These guys hit all their clubs so long they really don't need a driver outside the par 5s. I think they use more clubs off the tee then most would think...

[Thomas Dai]

I’m quite happy with folks, Pros on TV included, using a Driver. I just don’t want them to have one in their hands that’s as easy to hit so consistently long and accurately.
Atb

[Steve Wilson]

Indeed, Duncan the Hogan story was about the 1950 Open at Merion.   And because Hogan didn’t have any need for a 7-iron that week he was able to put the one iron into his bag and so provide us with one of golf most iconic moments-the one iron approach to the 18th they got him into the playoff which he went on to win

[Mark_Fine]

Just think how the game is passing courses by.  I remember Davis Love commenting about Pine Valley - "Nice course but doesn't really require a driver"    Only hole I could see where he and many other tour pros would maybe hit driver would be on #15.  On the other par five they could hit it into Hell's Half Acre off the tee so a 3W or long iron is fine.  They have since added a few new back tees but a 300+ yard 3W is still more than adequate.   

[Ben Hollerbach]

"A tour pro is likely only to use half his clubs in any given round...the trouble is, he doesn't know which half!"

Duncan -

I would beg to differ. My guess is a good number of pros (and their caddies) have a very good idea of what clubs they will be hitting over the course of their round when they head to the 1st tee.

If they were required to leave 4 clubs in their locker and play with 10 clubs, they could do that quite easily.

DT

While they might be able to adjust and be selective in their club choices, Forcing them to do so and making choices could have some interesting impacts on play. If they were limited to 8-10 clubs would players just adjust the clubs in their bag to have broader coverage with larger distance gaps or would they selectively remove clubs that they would infrequently use over a round? either way, they are opening up potential opportunities where the don't feel they have the right tool.
I'm all for forcing the players to rely more on their own abilities and not their equipment to succeed, Even if the effect is 1 stroke a round/ every other round.

[Tom_Doak]

As we've discussed here before, I think you'd have to get down to about seven clubs in order to make them dump a couple of wedges and go back to hitting some shots by feel.  Which would be a great thing.


They could easily go down to ten without sacrificing much.  The reason they don't is the reason cited by the R&A technical guy as the reason they'd never go to seven: "Our friends at the equipment companies wouldn't like selling half as many clubs."

[Chris Bevan]

-

[Thomas Dai]

As we've discussed here before, I think you'd have to get down to about seven clubs in order to make them dump a couple of wedges and go back to hitting some shots by feel.  Which would be a great thing.
They could easily go down to ten without sacrificing much.  The reason they don't is the reason cited by the R&A technical guy as the reason they'd never go to seven: "Our friends at the equipment companies wouldn't like selling half as many clubs."

+1
Ah yes, “our friends....”
I recall reading that Alister MacKenzie wanted a 6 club limit.
Atb

[Michael Felton]

When I was younger I used to play with half a set sometimes. Pick odd irons or even irons and go play. It was educational and I should do it more often, especially off season for handicap.


It's interesting that when Phil for example put two drivers in his bag, he didn't adjust all his irons. I think he dropped his longest iron. If a tour pro would like to play with 16 clubs, because he could add a 5th wedge and have hybrid and 5 wood, I wonder why they don't do that and drop the two clubs they think most likely they won't need. I'm guessing the answer is because they don't know which clubs they're going to wind up using on the day. A drive gets a hard bounce or a soft bounce and suddenly you're in your gap. I'm sure they could fashion something tolerably successful in that situation, but presumably they feel it's not worth it.


As to the original question, I'd guess it's around 10. Most of them will use a driver, 3 wood and driving iron/hybrid every day, probably at least 2 wedges every day and putter obviously. Then the middle of the bag may vary, but I doubt if they know which ones they're going to use before they get there, especially if it's gusty. I'd guess it averages 10-11 clubs per round.

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