[Wade Whitehead]

So, at what point is Merion, or any other course for that matter, a Ship of Theseus?

WW

[Tom_Doak]

So, at what point is Merion, or any other course for that matter, a Ship of Theseus?

WW

The whooshing sound was that reference going over my head.  No room for classes in metaphysics in the accelerated Landscape Architecture program.


Now that I've Googled what it means, the answer to your question remains to be seen.  I will say I've gotten pretty much uniformly positive reviews for our Bel Air restoration, even though we had to blow up the entire course and put many greens back together that had changed drastically in 1962 or thereafter ... but everyone accepts that it's Bel Air.  So I presume that everyone will happily accept the new, "improved" Merion as the same golf course.  Frankly, I don't think it's been the same since Tom Fazio ripped the Scotch broom out of the bunkers 20 years ago, but that's another story.


I don't know what to expect from this renovation; I guess I'll believe it when I see it.  My objection is not so much that, but that they felt like they had to do it at all.  I have not seen that they are working to be restoring old features etc. - as far as I can tell they are spending all that $$$ to make the conditioning better.  And that's just crazy to me.

[Mike Sweeney]

So, at what point is Merion, or any other course for that matter, a Ship of Theseus?

WW

Google "Merion Bluegrass", and most of the references don't even know where the term comes from. Growing up in the late 70's, that was the grass at Merion:


http://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/1950s/1952/521125.pdf


My guess is grass replacement has happened a number of times at Merion before the "Merion Bluegrass" was replaced.


I am still sad that Merion "softened" 5 and 12 greens, but reality is, every historic course THAT HAS MONEY has been changed, many times. New grass in greens (and everywhere), means new course even if they don't use any big shovels.


Grass guys can confirm or deny...

[Jerry Kluger]

So, at what point is Merion, or any other course for that matter, a Ship of Theseus?

WW

The whooshing sound was that reference going over my head.  No room for classes in metaphysics in the accelerated Landscape Architecture program.


Now that I've Googled what it means, the answer to your question remains to be seen.  I will say I've gotten pretty much uniformly positive reviews for our Bel Air restoration, even though we had to blow up the entire course and put many greens back together that had changed drastically in 1962 or thereafter ... but everyone accepts that it's Bel Air.  So I presume that everyone will happily accept the new, "improved" Merion as the same golf course.  Frankly, I don't think it's been the same since Tom Fazio ripped the Scotch broom out of the bunkers 20 years ago, but that's another story.


I don't know what to expect from this renovation; I guess I'll believe it when I see it.  My objection is not so much that, but that they felt like they had to do it at all.  I have not seen that they are working to be restoring old features etc. - as far as I can tell they are spending all that $$$ to make the conditioning better.  And that's just crazy to me.

Is there any reason to believe that the USGA pressured them into doing this?

[Ryan Farrow]

Tom, plenty of old features have been restored, you can rest assured. I just finished up my last bit of work out there and it focused on restoring the upper level on #13 tee. For all of the bashing of excess, I will say that one very positive benefit of the work has been the extremely firm playing surfaces that is the result of coring out of the approaches.


I am also turning the corner on the Better Billy Bunker. It needs to be installed in the right environment to make sense but I have been on the other end of fixing sand washouts down bunker faces. I'm on board if the math works.

[Jon Wiggett]

So, at what point is Merion, or any other course for that matter, a Ship of Theseus?

WW

Google "Merion Bluegrass", and most of the references don't even know where the term comes from. Growing up in the late 70's, that was the grass at Merion:


http://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/1950s/1952/521125.pdf


My guess is grass replacement has happened a number of times at Merion before the "Merion Bluegrass" was replaced.


I am still sad that Merion "softened" 5 and 12 greens, but reality is, every historic course THAT HAS MONEY has been changed, many times. New grass in greens (and everywhere), means new course even if they don't use any big shovels.


Grass guys can confirm or deny...

Mike,


Grass is very adaptable and given the chance will often alter it's growth characteristics to allow it to survive in a climate it would otherwise not be able to. Most courses here in the UK will have a multitude of grasses of the same type but which differ slightly to suit the micro-climate they are set in. Maybe 'Merion Bluegrass' was the grass that had adapted over decades to the particular climate at the club but which proved successful at other courses?


As for your comments about the 5th & 12th. It is highly ironical that greens are cut lower to increase the distance a ball will roll at in order to supposedly make a green harder (though in fact it is much easier for good putters) only to then flatten greens because they become too difficult. Kind of shows the intelligence or lack of it of those who make the decisions 


Difficult greens have more slope not roll and the sooner people understand this the better. It would not only lead to tougher putting conditions for good putters but also quicker golf, shorter courses and more entertaining tournaments IMHO.

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