[Ed Brzezowski]

Has anyone driven by lately? Watched them install the mechanicals for the first green , quite an undertaking indeed.

Find it hard to fathom they can keep all the little hills and valleys in those fairways. There was a serious workforce out there on a blistering hot day moving earth, shaping and spraying. Some greens looked like you could play on them now.

Anyone heard if it will be done for spring??

[Jeff Schley]

I was at Riviera last month and they are almost done installing the rubber liner for all their bunkers with only 1 left I believe.  The member said Merion is the only other course who has installed these and there are good results so far.  Thus obviously there was this ground up tire rubber liners which should help drainage apparently.

[MCirba]

I've seen some photos, Ed, but haven't been out there myself.   

I should stop by Sunday morning after swinging by Cobb's Creek en route to Aronimink.   

[Ryan Farrow]

I was at Riviera last month and they are almost done installing the rubber liner for all their bunkers with only 1 left I believe.  The member said Merion is the only other course who has installed these and there are good results so far.  Thus obviously there was this ground up tire rubber liners which should help drainage apparently.

Interesting, is Riviera remodeling the bunkers or just installing new liner/sand.


I must say that you have some bad info. Merion is doing Better Billy Bunkers. I have never heard of a ground up rubber liner. And it is pretty easy to keep the fairway contours when they are not being reshaped. Just sprayed out and replanted. Course is on schedule, should be wrapping up near the end of Sept.

[Chris Mavros]

Drove by the other day.  While the First green looks more completed than anything else, the course is still very much in the construction phase, with very few fairways put in. 

[Jim_Coleman]

   I've driven by several times over the summer, most recently last week.  The amount of work is incredible.  If you told me it cost $100 million, I'd believe it.  To me, it looked from the road like the course was pretty well planted.  The rough seems to be sodded; the fairways seeded.  I think the greens are seeded, but can't tell for sure from the road.   If the course is to be open as scheduled by next May, I would think it would be pretty well planted by now, as I would think two full growing seasons would be needed.  Because the word on the street is that they are on schedule (if not on budget), I suspect the grass on the course is pretty much in.  Looks like some bunker work still needs to be done, but if I were betting, I'd say they will open on schedule.

[Jeff Schley]

I was at Riviera last month and they are almost done installing the rubber liner for all their bunkers with only 1 left I believe.  The member said Merion is the only other course who has installed these and there are good results so far.  Thus obviously there was this ground up tire rubber liners which should help drainage apparently.

Interesting, is Riviera remodeling the bunkers or just installing new liner/sand.


I must say that you have some bad info. Merion is doing Better Billy Bunkers. I have never heard of a ground up rubber liner. And it is pretty easy to keep the fairway contours when they are not being reshaped. Just sprayed out and replanted. Course is on schedule, should be wrapping up near the end of Sept.

They are just installing new liners, actually they are all done except for hole #7 which is still closed.  I actually hit into one that was not yet filled with sand on hole 6 I believe that you get a free drop from.  The member told us that Riviera is doing the same thing as Merion.  I don't know the extent of the Merion renovation, but I do know Riviera is using some ground up rubber matting sealed with tar based product at the joints.  Vaughn played with us and I think may have some secret pictures ).

[Ed Brzezowski]

I've seen some photos, Ed, but haven't been out there myself.   

I should stop by Sunday morning after swinging by Cobb's Creek en route to Aronimink.

AGC looks and is spectacular, i'm on 7 stop by.

ed

[Tom_Doak]

but I do know Riviera is using some ground up rubber matting sealed with tar based product at the joints. 

That's what a Better Billy Bunker looks like.  I'm not sure the material is actually rubber, though.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Well what I was referring to was the massive heat pump looking object being gently placed into a rather large pit. Complete with a 3 foot by 4 foot grate entryway from above. Lots of plumbing, power connections and venting going on.


They were just starting to seed 14 and 15 fairways from what I saw. It looked like a lot of the front nine was seeded and growing in, the back nine no so much.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Well what I was referring to was the massive heat pump looking object being gently placed into a rather large pit. Complete with a 3 foot by 4 foot grate entryway from above. Lots of plumbing, power connections and venting going on.


They were just starting to seed 14 and 15 fairways from what I saw. It looked like a lot of the front nine was seeded and growing in, the back nine no so much.

Last I heard, they were putting in the same system that Gil and Russ Myers put in at LACC-heating and cooling tubes under the greens. Augusta has this, also.

[Thad Layton]

but I do know Riviera is using some ground up rubber matting sealed with tar based product at the joints. 

That's what a Better Billy Bunker looks like.  I'm not sure the material is actually rubber, though.

Here is a link to the Polylast website...https://polylastsystems.com/polylast-products/bunker-liner/
You can see from the pics that it's being used at Riviera and The Valley Club. It's a ground up rubber mat that is fabricated into rolls then is seamed together in field.

[Jeff Schley]

but I do know Riviera is using some ground up rubber matting sealed with tar based product at the joints. 

That's what a Better Billy Bunker looks like.  I'm not sure the material is actually rubber, though.

I just checked out Billy Bunker and it isn't what RCC is doing.  I did some online searches and what they are using is Polylast.
Here is the link......https://polylastsystems.com/polylast-products/bunker-liner/

[Tom_Doak]

Last I heard, they were putting in the same system that Gil and Russ Myers put in at LACC-heating and cooling tubes under the greens. Augusta has this, also.

Heating tubes in Los Angeles ?

[Mike Schott]

Last I heard, they were putting in the same system that Gil and Russ Myers put in at LACC-heating and cooling tubes under the greens. Augusta has this, also.

Heating tubes in Los Angeles ?

LOL! Maybe it's cultural. They wear winter coats in LA when the temps fall below 50F.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Last I heard, they were putting in the same system that Gil and Russ Myers put in at LACC-heating and cooling tubes under the greens. Augusta has this, also.

Heating tubes in Los Angeles ?

The system can do both. I believe it was being looked at for the Southern Hills renovation, also.


https://subairsystems.com/golf/why-subair-golf/hydronics/


  Precision Air (different than Sub air) can pump in warm air and cool air. TPC Sawgrass has this as does Hazeltine.


https://www.google.com/amp/www.jacksonville.com/article/20120125/SPORTS/801258834%3ftemplate=ampart

[Jerry Kluger]

Excuse me but what the heck is going on?  Did Merion have so many problems that they needed to redo the whole thing? At least ANGC has the Masters every year - are they doing this at Merion because of the US Open?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Excuse me but what the heck is going on?  Did Merion have so many problems that they needed to redo the whole thing? At least ANGC has the Masters every year - are they doing this at Merion because of the US Open?

Top of the line, new irrigation systems alone can be $2.5-$3m. Heads to water only the rough, heads to water only the fairway, bunker misters, etc...
USGA greens are $1m.  Subair can be $40-50k/ green by the time everything is added up.

Spec'ed bunker sand can be $65/ton or more. Better Billy style bunker liners can be $3/square foot or more.

The numbers can add up very quickly.

Im also comfortable to say that having pure bentgrass surfaces on shortgrass will be easier in the summers that previously.


Interesting how so many are quick to scrutinize Merion for renovating when they didn't feel anything was wrong. I don't recall Aronimink getting the same scrutiny. Same could be said of Winged Foot and others.

[Jerry Kluger]

I think I understand it now - Merion was a dog track and needed this just to make it playable.

[Anthony_Nysse]

https://twitter.com/precisionusa/status/1038152960134586369?s=21


Some photos of the vaults

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Merion is installing Better Billy Bunker. Riviera use Polylast.

[Jon Wiggett]

I think I understand it now - Merion was a dog track and needed this just to make it playable.

Spot on Jerry.


This sort of thing is madness if looked at through any sort of logical lens.

[jeffwarne]

I think I understand it now - Merion was a dog track and needed this just to make it playable.

Spot on Jerry.


This sort of thing is madness if looked at through any sort of logical lens.

yes but critically important if we want the US Open competitors to hit 3 irons rather than 5 irons off par 4 tees next time..........and for the greens to be able to roll 15 (check that-by then Mike Davis will be touting 18 as the new 15)


Rolled back ball?
$1
renovated iconic course?
10 million plus


Common sense?
priceless.....




Rumor has it the USGA is absorbing the cost of storing the left over Merion sod at Erin Hills

[Jon Wiggett]

I think I understand it now - Merion was a dog track and needed this just to make it playable.

Spot on Jerry.


This sort of thing is madness if looked at through any sort of logical lens.

yes but critically important if we want the US Open competitors to hit 3 irons rather than 5 irons off par 4 tees next time..........and for the greens to be able to roll 15 (check that-by then Mike Davis will be touting 18 as the new 15)


Rolled back ball?
$1
renovated iconic course?
10 million plus


Common sense?
priceless.....




Rumor has it the USGA is absorbing the cost of storing the left over Merion sod at Erin Hills

Jeff,


when it comes to making sensible decision on what makes good course set up/conditions for major golf championships I would not take the USGA and in particular Mike Davis to seriously.

[Tom_Doak]

Im also comfortable to say that having pure bentgrass surfaces on shortgrass will be easier in the summers that previously.

Interesting how so many are quick to scrutinize Merion for renovating when they didn't feel anything was wrong. I don't recall Aronimink getting the same scrutiny. Same could be said of Winged Foot and others.

Yes but they should have gotten the same scrutiny.


Also, you are right, having pure bent surfaces will make it easier for the superintendent to run up the green speeds every day.  Ick.  I'm particularly sensitive to that at Merion because I remember Walter Woods from St. Andrews telling me how much he admired the greenkeeper at Merion for keeping that mixture of bentgrasses and poa in such fine condition.  He thought they were the best greens he had ever seen, as of 1982.  [Before they started pushing them too far and killing them every few years.]

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