European Ryder Cup team

[George Pazin]

I know Sergio gets his share of grief -- on this board and elsewhere -- but the guy is a mensch when it comes to this competition. Playing for Euro since 1999, his 9th team this year, and goes out to grab another win today. He's now got 23.5 points in his Ryder Cup career -- not many players, ever, have had that kind of success at the RC.

I'm thrilled to be able to agree with my friend Phil. RC Sergio is still pretty damn special.


I really enjoy watching the Euro team during the RCs. They just seem to be more team oriented. Could be a misread on my part, or it could simply be because they always win......

[Rich Goodale]

Euro Mavens.


What's going to go happen if Brexit happens?


Will UK players not be eligible?
Will Northern Irish players have to jump across the border to Eire in order to be eligible?
Will Scottish players (if we can ever again good enough to be RC players........) have to wait for Scexit?
Can Rahm and the other guys who live in the USA switch sides?


Just wondering.....


rfg

[Thomas Dai]

Rihc, you Devils Advocate playing rascal,....

....there have been numerous oddities over the years. For example Seve and other Spaniards were already playing in the Ryder Cup before Spain joined the Eu. And of course before it was a Europe team it was a GB&I team, and part of the I is a separate country to the GB bit (best not go any further on that one!). And Swedish players have played in the Ryder Cup since 1993 even Sweden wasn’t in the EU then.

But as someone once said, it’s become mostly a team of Euro’s who live in Florida vrs a a team of US folks who also happen to live in Florida. As do most of the International team in the Presidents Cup for that matter.

Perhaps, given their parents places of birth, the likes of Nick Price and Greg Norman and Robert Allenby should have played for Europe and Tiger played for the International team!

Atb

[Jon Wiggett]

Rich,


Europe is a continent of which there are many countries who have nothing to do with the EU within its borders. The EU is a political union and a closed market which is nothing to do with continental Europe other than geological location. Its main purpose is to protect its members from the outside world.


I can understand that having spent should a short time in Europe you have not yet grasped the complexity of the whole concept Please do not ask for an explanation of the whole UK, GB, Britain, GB&I, GB&NI...… 

[Sean_A]

So why the 12 stars (it is 12 right?) as part of the team look or even a second team logo?    Any why is it still 12 stars?  Something is rotten in Denmark...which is a Euro Member Country, but doesn't use the Euro 

Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

So why the 12 stars (it is 12 right?) as part of the team look or even a second team logo?    Any why is it still 12 stars?  Something is rotten in Denmark...which is a Euro Member Country, but doesn't use the Euro 

Ciao

Great idea Sean!  This gets all the Brits and NIs (aka Rory) out out of the Euro team as well as the Swedes, Danes, Poles, Hungarians and Czechs (I'm sure I'm missing somebody....).

[Jon Wiggett]

So why the 12 stars (it is 12 right?) as part of the team look or even a second team logo?    Any why is it still 12 stars?  Something is rotten in Denmark...which is a Euro Member Country, but doesn't use the Euro 

Ciao

Apparently it's the flag of Europe

[Sean_A]

So why the 12 stars (it is 12 right?) as part of the team look or even a second team logo?    Any why is it still 12 stars?  Something is rotten in Denmark...which is a Euro Member Country, but doesn't use the Euro 

Ciao

Apparently it's the flag of Europe

Strange isn't it? Only 12 stars for Union logo, but there are something like 25 countries (maybe more...I lost count as its completely out of control) in the Union.  Also strange, so far as I know, the Union has nothing to do with the Ryder Cup team. Can't any European player who qualifies play on the team?  I guess Turkish golfers need to make sure they live on the right side of the tracks 

Ciao

[Tim Martin]

Well played Europe!!! Congrats.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I have heard many questions/comments on TV, about "Why does the Ryder Cup mean more to the Europeans."
(One can agree or disagree with this belief, but for the sake of argument, I am accepting the truth of this statement.)



One plausible explanation popped in my head, and maybe others have said something similar.


Three of the men's majors are in the US, The Open is in the UK, this is the 5th biggest event in golf, and once every fours years it is in Europe.  Almost every American gets more excited about the Masters than anything else in golf.  I know the whole world of golf follows the Masters closely, but even more so in the US.  In the US we all have some minor dream of possibly attending the Masters, we all know some one who has attended the Masters.  For the rest of the world, being at the Masters is not even a dream.  But, for Europe they do get to (once every four years) have one of THE premier events in golf on their home soil.


I think this is one aspect that causes the Ryder Cup to become more emotional for Europeans (golfers & fans) than for the US.


Also, will Molinari be European Captain in 4 years, when this event visits Italy?

[Mark Pearce]

I hope Molinari is playing in 4 years, not captaining.....

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Interesting how many of the things mentioned in earlier posts did not come to pass: Molinari played like a wizard, Poulter and Casey justified their presence and Sergio played his socks off. Certainly the Danish Captain seemed to have the upper hand over Furyk. Furyk and Fowler both gave excellent post-match opinions when interviewed by BBC Radio Five Live.

[Jeff Schley]

Congrats to the Euro team.  The stalwarts (Rose, Fleetwood) didn't actually produce today and still played very well.  WAY too much emphasis on the captains and their influence, IMO.  The US guys are used to playing on their own in their own little world, in silos then you just take them together and expect them to become a team.  It isn't that easy unfortunately.

[Jim Nugent]

Any explanation for why the US does so poorly in the Ryder Cup must also address another fact: the US has totally dominated the Presidents Cup. 

Same format.  Same frequency.  Similar level of players, at least according to the world rankings. 

So why does the US perform so much better in one than the other? 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Can't resist offering my 2c's worth
[/color] [/size]
[/color]I am influenced by Jeff Warne who has often said the current team are just used to being the drum that’s beaten.[/size]
[/color] [/size]
[/color]Friday night Furyk was in total shell shock and had no answers after just one bad session.  [/size]He’d lived this before but it didn’t need to be a nightmare. You need a Captain who can lead the team. Perhaps you need ot find a non golfer – SHOCK HORROR – or non American to do the job.  You can choose the Captain but the team largely selects itself.
[/color] [/size]
[/color]( And there will be those who come in here and say it has nothing to do with the Captain. I’d just add us Euro’s are very happy if you guys just keep believing that.)[/size]

[Adam Lawrence]

Any explanation for why the US does so poorly in the Ryder Cup must also address another fact: the US has totally dominated the Presidents Cup. 

Same format.  Same frequency.  Similar level of players, at least according to the world rankings. 

So why does the US perform so much better in one than the other?

Because the opposition in the President's Cup has no identity. Whereas the Europeans do. It all comes down to that.

[Tony_Muldoon]

[/color][/size]

 
 
 
 
 Because the opposition in the President's Cup has no identity. Whereas the Europeans do. It all comes down to that.
 
[/color] [/size]
[/color] [/size]
[/color]Really Adam?  “We” have RC history, a tour with a higher proportion of 'natives' and a common(ish) culture but ...identity?   Personally, I think it’s the history and a common love of team sports that the other side don't seem to possess (perhaps they focus on Golf too early). Check out the other thread which touches on what is Europe and I think it’s hard to make the case for a common identity.  Perhaps we agree but I think it’s coincidental that a very loose tour (including middle east venue’s) produces a strong team identity.[/size]

[Jim Nugent]

So if the rest of the world had an identity (whatever that means), they would smash the US team to smithereens? 

That somehow does not explain why the best player of his time, and likely the best ever, has won barely a third of his Ryder Cup matches. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Jim,


I think all the European players had played the course multiple times (average 20ish rounds each) where as the US players only had a handful who had seen the course and averaged less (6 holes). I think it was a lack of course knowledge and too many players who really did not want to win enough that cost the US. Look at the example of Garcia and Mickleson. When Sergio was playing poorly a few years back he wanted the Europeans to win it so much he asked not to be picked where as Phil was more interested in his own image. You cannot tell me there were not some of the US players thinking Phil should not be there the same as you would not find a European player who thought Sergio shouldn't be there.


The thing that shocked me the most however was after Tiger lost the singles he looked like a tired, old, balding man (bit like me) who was in some discomfort. I hope I am wrong but I wonder if his back is beginning to give up again.


Jon

[Tom_Doak]

I have heard many questions/comments on TV, about "Why does the Ryder Cup mean more to the Europeans."
(One can agree or disagree with this belief, but for the sake of argument, I am accepting the truth of this statement.


Three of the men's majors are in the US, The Open is in the UK, this is the 5th biggest event in golf, and once every fours years it is in Europe.  Almost every American gets more excited about the Masters than anything else in golf.  I know the whole world of golf follows the Masters closely, but even more so in the US.  In the US we all have some minor dream of possibly attending the Masters, we all know some one who has attended the Masters.  For the rest of the world, being at the Masters is not even a dream.  But, for Europe they do get to (once every four years) have one of THE premier events in golf on their home soil.


I think this is one aspect that causes the Ryder Cup to become more emotional for Europeans (golfers & fans) than for the US.

Bill:  I agree with you, but it's more than that.


Every Cup the European side has a few players whom the Americans totally dismiss because they aren't contenders at the majors.  But in fact, those players almost always play above their heads at the Ryder Cup, because it is THE most significant event of their lives.  Poulter, Casey, Fleetwood et al get off on beating the higher-rated Americans head to head, like McGinley and O'Connor and Darren Clarke before them.  Tiger and Phil and others take no pride in beating the no-names, so they have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

[Sean_A]

Europe was added to the matches in 1979. When I think back over the past 40 years three things stand out to me...and the US didn't have any of the three. It is clear to me these are the main reasons for any sort of Euro identity...everybody else was fed by this lot.

Seve Ballesteros
Sergio Garcia
Jose Maria Olazabal

Take away this Spanish thread and US probably wins the vast majority of matches.  For whatever reasons, these three guys have been the Euro glue for 40 years.  With these three guys, the matches are far more entertaining and competitive.  I think this was Sergio's last go..except for Captaincy.  So we are nearing the end of what has been a remarkable story in golf...for me, one of the most interesting in my lifetime. 

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,


It's obtuse not to have Poulter on that list.  But this will be his last go as well.  It will be interesting to see who steps into his (and Garcia's) shoes, but someone will.  Maybe Fleetwood, maybe Frankie.

[Sean_A]

Mark

I find Poulter a less compelling character because he comes from a golf culture.  For the most part, Seve, Jose and Garcia had to create a Euro culture which blended with the dominant GB&I culture. Poulter was able to ride the coat tails of the mindset these three guys created and nourished.  That isn't to take anything from Poults, but it isn't quite the same thing.  He was a 1-2 punch with Sergio if you will, once the other two Spaniards were out of the picture.  I have a lot of time for these three gentlemen.   

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Seems like the knives are being waived about and even struck in to each other amongst the losing team. Sounds like the perfect recipe for harmony in and out of the teamroom in 2020 (sic). 1-point up for next time to the Euro's already?
atb

[Niall C]

There wasn’t a dud golfer on show including Phil and Tiger. Each golfer at the RC earned the right to be there either by their efforts over the qualifying period or by their past glories. In terms of the relative abilities, each golfer was capable of beating any of the other golfers on any given day. For instance, Webb Simpson put in a commanding performance in beating an on form Justin Rose, something the relative rankings suggest shouldn’t have happened. Likewise Poulter over Johnston.

The question is then why did one group perform better than the other group ? Or to put it another way, why do Europe regularly outplay the US ? My own pet theory for what it’s worth, is that it’s the chip on the shoulder that drives on the Europeans. Starting with Seve (there was a man who could bear a grudge !) they have had a point to prove. Initially it was lack of access to the US tour and the US majors and now you would probably call it lack of recognition.

Case in point was Sam Torrance. There was a guy who was a stalwart of the European Tour for over 20 years; who was in Europes top ten ten times; who was runner up in the Order of Merit a couple of times winning over 20 times on tour; who was in 8 Ryder Cup teams as a player and as Captain once (winning more than he lost); and yet who only got to play in the Masters 4 times, the US Open 3 times and the PGA 6 times. 

No wonder that the Ryder Cup took on such importance for the Euros. Things may be better access wise these days, but as the relative rankings suggest, you don’t get the same recognition on the European Tour and I bet that rankles with the guys who mainly play in Europe, and even those that now call the US home.

Niall