[Nick Ribeiro]

Sounds great - have they actually done anything yet - any work done on the course such as the bunkers or the tee boxes?

~ They already started adding tee boxes. They are adding about 1,000 yards to the course to keep the course in line with equipment advancement and make it playable for all skill levels.

Kidding, right? 

Not kidding! Dealing with forward thinkers here who see current trends in distance and will have a course ready for the next generation! I know I've said it in a few threads on here now, but does anyone believe this wont be standard? The debate is not if, its when... Dormie Club obviously wants to make sure they have a product for all skill levels, including today's younger guys and pros!

[Nick Ribeiro]

I can't imagine why they would need to add 1000 yards to the course unless they think they can get a PGA Championship or US Open there -- and I don't think there's any way that course has room for the stands, people movement, etc. that they would need for such an event.


Seems like an absolute waste of money to have a 7800 yard set of tees out there.

Edward, Go watch some of these kids in late teens early 20s hit the ball. If equipment continues to advance at the pace its been, 7800 wont be long enough, which I can see your point if you're saying why stop at 7800? 

[Edward Glidewell]

I can't imagine why they would need to add 1000 yards to the course unless they think they can get a PGA Championship or US Open there -- and I don't think there's any way that course has room for the stands, people movement, etc. that they would need for such an event.


Seems like an absolute waste of money to have a 7800 yard set of tees out there.

Edward, Go watch some of these kids in late teens early 20s hit the ball. If equipment continues to advance at the pace its been, 7800 wont be long enough, which I can see your point if you're saying why stop at 7800?

That's only the elite players, though -- the VAST majority of golfers, including young golfers, don't hit it anywhere near that far. Furthermore, some of the ones that do still don't need to play from back there because they aren't good enough overall to need the distance challenge (e.g. I occasionally play with someone who can hit his driver 290+ and his 3 iron 230+, but he can play from 6500 yards and still only shoot in the high 70s or low 80s)


How many members do you think will ever use a 7800 yard set of tees? I'd guess 5% or less. You only need tees that length if you are expecting a major tournament.

[Nick Ribeiro]

I can't imagine why they would need to add 1000 yards to the course unless they think they can get a PGA Championship or US Open there -- and I don't think there's any way that course has room for the stands, people movement, etc. that they would need for such an event.


Seems like an absolute waste of money to have a 7800 yard set of tees out there.

Edward, Go watch some of these kids in late teens early 20s hit the ball. If equipment continues to advance at the pace its been, 7800 wont be long enough, which I can see your point if you're saying why stop at 7800?

That's only the elite players, though -- the VAST majority of golfers, including young golfers, don't hit it anywhere near that far. Furthermore, some of the ones that do still don't need to play from back there because they aren't good enough overall to need the distance challenge (e.g. I occasionally play with someone who can hit his driver 290+ and his 3 iron 230+, but he can play from 6500 yards and still only shoot in the high 70s or low 80s)


How many members do you think will ever use a 7800 yard set of tees? I'd guess 5% or less. You only need tees that length if you are expecting a major tournament.

6500 yards more than likely doesn't provide the player who hits his 3 iron 230+ yards and driver 290+ yards a round which includes every club in his bag.


Maybe they are expecting a major tournament? I have not heard that yet?

[Jeff Schley]

Victoria has been hemoraghing local members including myself lat year. They may be adding some as well but i do not know of them.And maybe that is ok for the Dormie Club model. I do not know what they would need to add or alter

Ward sorry to hear.  2 questions:

1. How has the acquisition of Victoria to Dormie Network changed your dues/fees (if any) and/or benefits?
2. For the local members that are leaving, what clubs are people navigating to?  Don't know the area well so not sure what is around.

[John Kavanaugh]

Jeff,


Read how happy Wade is at Ballyhack. That is exactly how the members at Victoria will feel next year. Our current thoughts our with our brothers in membership who are facing the storms out east. We will be teeing it up soon.

[Lou_Duran]

If it is appropriate, I'd like to learn about the financial details for joining the network.  Member access to VN, Dormie, BH, etc. could be very attractive if priced more similarly to the UK model.

[Wade Whitehead]

Gents:

New tees at Dormie Club will add about 700 yards to the current overall length.  They're also building several new forward teeing grounds for seniors and ladies.

All of this makes for an extremely elastic setup, whereby holes can play in a variety of ways.  A par four one day might be a par five the next, and vice versa.

I love half par holes and the new tees should introduce all sorts of new possibilities at Dormie Club.

WW

[Jerry Kluger]

Wade: I am a big fan of Dormie but many of my friends who have played it questioned the condition of the course which was far more important than its length or the quality of the clubhouse.  Often, the bunkers were in very poor shape so they just called them all waste areas and allowed you to ground your club and there were no rakes.  Also, the teeing grounds were poorly maintained and needed some type of definition - for example, the entire area of what is supposed to be the tee for number 6 was in bad shape and the tee for number 9 was always in poor condition.  It just seemed like the course was not finished so to me, the first thing that they should spend money on is the course and when that is complete then they should concern themselves with the clubhouse.

[Daryl David]

It just seemed like the course was not finished so to me, the first thing that they should spend money on is the course and when that is complete then they should concern themselves with the clubhouse.

I agree on the course conditions Jerry, but I think given the owners desire to sell lots of national memberships, their first priority has to be facilities for food and accommodations. The state of those two items was not going pull in any initiation fees as the previous owners found out.  Hopefully they have the capital to do the course and the facilities simultaneously. 

[Nick Ribeiro]

I was at Ballyhack right after Dormie Network took it over and the conditions were not bad but not nearly as good as they were the second time I visited a year later. Dormie Network is in it for the long haul and investing in all of the above. With that said I was at Dormie right after the Network purchased it and there were some drainage problems and just over all neglect over time. I will be excited to get back there as work has already been started to make improvements to the course including the bunkers and raising maintenance standards across the course. I would be surprised if your friends weren't impressed with the conditions in a few short months.


As far as the business model it is without a doubt unique. One of the biggest things I questioned when first visiting Ballyhack is they closed the local membership (not sure if still full?) and all I heard for years prior is they could never get membership. I assume they will do the same at Victoria National. They achieve profitability by offering quality and services members and their guests are willing to pay for on a daily basis. Local membership was not the answer for these clubs before acquired by Dormie Network and I think its smart to believe that won't be the answer going forward. They seem to heavily concentrating on the hospitality side, and making sure members and guests are happy enough to make them profitable by heavily spending while there.


I'm interested to see where this ends up. I have no reason not to believe they will continue adding top tier properties to the Network.

[John Kavanaugh]

You guys are going to get Mickled again if you keep this up.

[Jay Mickle]

Beginning to sound like a pyramid scheme

[BHoover]

Does the Dormie Network model include having actual grass on the courses within its portfolio?


I ask this because the maintenance model in use at my own course, which is owned and operated by Arcis Golf, apparently does not.

[Jay Mickle]

Sounds great - have they actually done anything yet - any work done on the course such as the bunkers or the tee boxes?

** Forgot to add they already started removing trees. The plan is to remove close to 10k trees!

I have a hard time imagining 10,000 trees but wholesale removal will certainly open up what I believe will be some wonderful views.
Now for walking paths through the natural areas.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The owners are not afraid to spend money. The conditions at Ballyhack are by far the best I ever seen them. When I was at Dormie this spring I was told that cabins, clubhouse, and golf course renovations all were high priorities. National members or corporate members are not going to spend the money to go to poor lodging, inadequate menu, shabby course conditions, poor clubhouse. Lodging costs are $175 a night and greens fees are $125 a day. With a limited local membership pace of play will never be a problem. I'm still not sure about the concept. All I know is that Ballyhack has gotten better all the way around.

[Edward Glidewell]

Sounds great - have they actually done anything yet - any work done on the course such as the bunkers or the tee boxes?

** Forgot to add they already started removing trees. The plan is to remove close to 10k trees!

I have a hard time imagining 10,000 trees but wholesale removal will certainly open up what I believe will be some wonderful views.
Now for walking paths through the natural areas.

I actually dislike the sound of this. I know this site is all about removing trees, and I agree to a certain extent. There are far too many courses choked with trees that need a good thinning out, and of course trees that make it difficult to maintain greens etc. should go.

Dormie Club, however, is not one of them -- at least in my memory. I don't recall the trees ever feeling like they were intruding on the golf course in any way, and the feeling of being out in the woods was part of the charm of the course.

[Craig Disher]

I actually dislike the sound of this. I know this site is all about removing trees, and I agree to a certain extent. There are far too many courses choked with trees that need a good thinning out, and of course trees that make it difficult to maintain greens etc. should go.

Dormie Club, however, is not one of them -- at least in my memory. I don't recall the trees ever feeling like they were intruding on the golf course in any way, and the feeling of being out in the woods was part of the charm of the course.

I agree with this and I hope the idea of removing trees is more about thinning smaller trees that block some very nice views. A few years ago the undergrowth and small saplings were cut back from behind the 16th green to create a view of the lake. It was a revelation. I think more of this could be done and hope the idea is not to create better views for real estate.

[Jerry Kluger]

I understand that right now they are looking for local members at Dormie which is a good thing.  You cannot depend on national members to support a club like Dormie because you must keep a full time staff including clubhouse staff and without people at the club there is no one there buying food, drinks, etc.  Pinehurst is close by and people can come there and play some really good courses and get very good food and beverage service without having to join a club and pay dues.  I think this national model was one of the reasons why Ballyneal had so much trouble as Rupert was not interested in getting members from Denver so the only play they got was from people who stayed there and there weren't enough of them to justify the full time staff that was necessary to keep the course going.

[Wade Whitehead]

I actually dislike the sound of this. I know this site is all about removing trees, and I agree to a certain extent. There are far too many courses choked with trees that need a good thinning out, and of course trees that make it difficult to maintain greens etc. should go.

Dormie Club, however, is not one of them -- at least in my memory. I don't recall the trees ever feeling like they were intruding on the golf course in any way, and the feeling of being out in the woods was part of the charm of the course.

I agree with this and I hope the idea of removing trees is more about thinning smaller trees that block some very nice views. A few years ago the undergrowth and small saplings were cut back from behind the 16th green to create a view of the lake. It was a revelation. I think more of this could be done and hope the idea is not to create better views for real estate.

The Dormie property is huge (>1000 acres).  Current/upcoming tree removal is focusing on small hardwoods and "junkers" that are choking each other out.  It's more of an undergrowth cleanout than anything.

WW

[corey miller]

I disagree with the notion that a limited local membership at the Dormie club (or any private club) will help "pace of play"


"pace of play" has nothing to do with a full-tee sheet and everything to do with respect and rapport members have with one another.


I think in most instances it is the locals that play fast and the visiting members and guests that are rather slow.  Think these properties need a whole lot more locals than is being factored in especially with the high-end public resorts and the numerous other national memberships available in wonderful stable clubs.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I disagree with the notion that a limited local membership at the Dormie club (or any private club) will help "pace of play"


"pace of play" has nothing to do with a full-tee sheet and everything to do with respect and rapport members have with one another.


I think in most instances it is the locals that play fast and the visiting members and guests that are rather slow.  Think these properties need a whole lot more locals than is being factored in especially with the high-end public resorts and the numerous other national memberships available in wonderful stable clubs.

That is true to an extent. When only 7 or 8 groups play a day the pace of most groups does not effect anyone. I have seen slow players at Ballyhack but they are so far ahead I don't catch them.

[Tim Martin]

Dormie has a nice group of courses under their umbrella. I haven’t heard or know much about Arbor Links in Nebraska. Can anyone comment? Thank you.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I was there this summer. The Nebraska side of the Missouri River is pretty hilly and so is the course. There is not a lot of elevation change but enough to make it interesting. It is built on a huge piece of property so there is a sense of spaciousness. There is some room off the tee but the shots into the greens are pretty demanding. The course is laid out on some prairie land and fits nicely into the terrin. It is enjoyable and fun to play.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()