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Tommy Williamsen

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City Park GC Denver
« on: August 18, 2018, 12:35:17 PM »
I drove past this course this week. Looks like they are doing some serious drainage work. Anyone know about the redesign?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 12:37:24 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2018, 03:17:03 PM »
They are redoing it as part of a controversial drainage project. Adding stormwater detention.

As a result the entire course is being re-designed and the clubhouse moved. Hale Irwin's firm is doing the work. Supposed to open next year.

I've seen three different routings on the website so I'm not sure which one is actually getting built.

A lot of change is happening in Denver. Thorncreek just reopened after a big facelift (have yet to play it but it looks miles better than what was there before), the new City Park, and it looks like Park Hill may be going under. Also I believe The Ranch in Westminster is about to be overhauled as well.


« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 03:19:56 PM by Matthew Rose »
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2018, 09:03:53 AM »
Tommy,

Here is a link to an earlier thread about City Park: 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,64719.0.html

 
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2018, 11:50:54 PM »
They are redoing it as part of a controversial drainage project. Adding stormwater detention.

As a result the entire course is being re-designed and the clubhouse moved. Hale Irwin's firm is doing the work. Supposed to open next year.

I've seen three different routings on the website so I'm not sure which one is actually getting built.

A lot of change is happening in Denver. Thorncreek just reopened after a big facelift (have yet to play it but it looks miles better than what was there before), the new City Park, and it looks like Park Hill may be going under. Also I believe The Ranch in Westminster is about to be overhauled as well.


I always thought Thorncreek was a decent enough course, but one where the housing is really oppressive. It's been over a decade since I've played there and I never played there more than a handful of times so maybe I just happened to have unfortunately wild days when I was there, but it always felt uncomfortably narrow on the hole with housing in play (which is most).

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 11:52:30 PM »
I also drove past Fitzsimmons GC. Heard it closed for good. I don't know anything about it.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 01:47:38 AM »
The worst thing about Thorncreek was they had all those split-rail fences bordering the creek that runs through it. There were a couple of holes where the fences were directly in the line of play. I played there in a best-ball event and had a hybrid into a long par four hole; I was about 10 feet behind one of these fences and I smacked my shot right into it and it ricocheted behind me. I believe most of those have been removed, as well as a few places where the cart paths crossed the fairway.

The worst though was the old 7th (now #16; the nines have been flipped) which was a par-five that had an absolutely diabolical landing area (actually three landing areas). You either had to hit a 5-iron off the tee (on a 600 yard hole) to the first one, try to carry everything to the blind third landing area 300+ away, or find the middle landing area which was basically a circle of fairway 20 yards in diameter bordered by OB left, a creek long and a large blind bunker right. It was positively one of the stupidest holes on the planet.

From what I can tell, they've completely blown all that up and turned in into a very nice, wide fairway with the creek piped under and the bunker removed.

I've lived in Denver nearly 10 years and it is the closest golf course to my home.... but I've only ever played it twice, because I just didn't like it very much. I have heard good things about the redo, but have yet to get out there as it has only been open since late July.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 01:49:36 AM by Matthew Rose »
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 03:31:16 PM »
I also drove past Fitzsimmons GC. Heard it closed for good. I don't know anything about it.

Tommy, I hope you had a chance to play golf (e.g. CommonGround) in addition to driving by closed golf courses in Denver! Yes, Fitzsimmons was a nondescript military/public course that opened 100 years ago and closed last December. The course was a favorite of President Eisenhower while he was stationed here (there was even an Eisenhower tree on one of the holes). It had a loyal local following and closed as part of the massive hospital/healthcare complex that is engulfing that former military base.   
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Tom Ferrell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 12:59:20 PM »
I love City Park because of its urban location (urban courses are a bit of a fascination for me).  I have a lot of trepidation about this project and am not at all comfortable that anyone has the best interests of the golf course and golf population as a high priority.  We'll see.


I have not yet played the newly re-opened Thorncreek.  It HAS to be better than what was already there.  My understanding is that it was mostly a nip-and-tuck job.  Anything they could do to the 7th/16th par-5 in question would make it much better.  And I saw a photo of the work on no. 1, and it looked much more inviting and less gimmicky. 


For my money, the best of Denver-area public golf is (in no real order) CommonGround, Riverdale Dunes and the vastly underrated and often unknown Walnut Creek (formerly Heritage Westmoor), a Hurdzan-Fry design that has many outstanding holes and very few weak ones.


I did just play Colorado's newest golf course, the TPC Colorado in Berthoud (appx. 50 minutes north of Denver off of I-25).  This Art Schaupeter design (I am a big fan of Art and his work) is excellent. I will opine on that in a separate thread, but it strikes me as BY FAR the best of Northern Colorado.

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2018, 02:40:21 PM »
is Wellshire part of any Denver restoration conversations?
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2018, 04:07:18 PM »
is Wellshire part of any Denver restoration conversations?


We can but hope. But it wasn't all that long ago that they were happily adding a water feature to the 17th hole, so I'm not holding my breath.

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2018, 04:12:28 PM »
is Wellshire part of any Denver restoration conversations?


We can but hope. But it wasn't all that long ago that they were happily adding a water feature to the 17th hole, so I'm not holding my breath.
:(  sigh...
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2018, 06:01:52 PM »
is Wellshire part of any Denver restoration conversations?


We can but hope. But it wasn't all that long ago that they were happily adding a water feature to the 17th hole, so I'm not holding my breath.
:(  sigh...

The 17th hole "water feature" was added several years ago. It parallels the 17th green. Unfortunately Wellshire isn't being restored any time soon to my knowledge. The only work being done there is the closure of the lake on the property that doubled as the aqua driving range, and concomitant elimination of the small pond on the 10th hole that existed primarily due to drainage/seepage from said lake (actually that is an improvement). I play Wellshire a few times a year and each time I play it I wish someone would step in and do a restoration.  I have the original Ross drawings, and the Ross bones are there. Having seen some other Ross restorations like Wilmington Municipal and Minikahda, it could be exciting. If I could just win the Powerball lottery....
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2018, 12:21:22 PM »
is Wellshire part of any Denver restoration conversations?


We can but hope. But it wasn't all that long ago that they were happily adding a water feature to the 17th hole, so I'm not holding my breath.
:(  sigh...

The 17th hole "water feature" was added several years ago. It parallels the 17th green. Unfortunately Wellshire isn't being restored any time soon to my knowledge. The only work being done there is the closure of the lake on the property that doubled as the aqua driving range, and concomitant elimination of the small pond on the 10th hole that existed primarily due to drainage/seepage from said lake (actually that is an improvement). I play Wellshire a few times a year and each time I play it I wish someone would step in and do a restoration.  I have the original Ross drawings, and the Ross bones are there. Having seen some other Ross restorations like Wilmington Municipal and Minikahda, it could be exciting. If I could just win the Powerball lottery....


Doug,


What do you mean closure of the lake? Are they draining the reservoir or just not using it as a driving range anymore?


Getting rid of the pond on #10 is a huge benefit. What a terrible feature that was.


I don't know if you've ever posted the Ross drawings for Wellshire before. Would you consider it, if you haven't. I'd be so interested to see them. I used to play there all the time when I lived in Denver.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2018, 12:31:25 PM »
They're draining the reservoir; I'm not sure what they are doing with that area afterwards but I will find out (playing there today...).

If I knew how to post the Ross Wellshire drawings on here I'd do so; maybe someone can tell me how to do that.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2018, 09:37:32 PM »

Found this. Routing is slightly different; Holes 1-4 are now 10-13 and vice versa.

American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2018, 09:58:59 PM »
Besides Commonground, what are the best public courses in and around the city?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2018, 11:49:39 AM »
Besides Commonground, what are the best public courses in and around the city?


I quite like Murphy Creek, an Aurora muni way out on the east side. Ken Kavanaugh design.


And of course Riverdale Dunes in Brighton, which is officially a Dye course, but was the scene of a some work by one Mr. Doak.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2018, 12:40:32 PM »
I can second Murphy Creek as an excellent course.  Only pity is all the housing on the back 9 but some interesting holes/features can be found there..

Derek_Duncan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2018, 02:08:09 PM »
I can second Murphy Creek as an excellent course.  Only pity is all the housing on the back 9 but some interesting holes/features can be found there..


Another vote here for Murphy.
www.feedtheball.com -- a podcast about golf architecture and design
@feedtheball

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2018, 02:58:34 PM »
Tommy,

Wellshire is the best Denver municipal course. I always liked City Park and will be "interesting" to see what is in its place. Besides CommonGround, Murphy Creek and Riverdale Dunes are good public courses as mentioned.  Other publics that I like are Walnut Creek Golf Preserve (fka Heritage) in Westminster (Hurdzan/Fry) and Green Valley Ranch (Perry Dye) and Buffalo Run (Keith Foster), both near the airport. Also, if you want to experience a Jim Engh course, Fossil Trace in Golden is pretty cool.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2018, 04:41:18 PM »
Tommy,

Wellshire is the best Denver municipal course. I always liked City Park and will be "interesting" to see what is in its place. Besides CommonGround, Murphy Creek and Riverdale Dunes are good public courses as mentioned.  Other publics that I like are Walnut Creek Golf Preserve (fka Heritage) in Westminster (Hurdzan/Fry) and Green Valley Ranch (Perry Dye) and Buffalo Run (Keith Foster), both near the airport. Also, if you want to experience a Jim Engh course, Fossil Trace in Golden is pretty cool.


Agree Wilshire is the best of the City of Denver munis. I always thought Willis Case had some fun holes and Overland was decent. Kennedy is terrible. (I used to work at the range and mini golf course there.)


I also used to work at GVR, when it first opened. I enjoy the course but it has plenty of flaws.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2018, 05:52:11 PM »
I also used to work at GVR, when it first opened. I enjoy the course but it has plenty of flaws.

Matthew, I'm curious what flaws you saw in Green Valley Ranch (aside from the abysmal 16th hole, that is).
Twitter: @Deneuchre

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2018, 06:46:49 PM »
is Wellshire part of any Denver restoration conversations?


We can but hope. But it wasn't all that long ago that they were happily adding a water feature to the 17th hole, so I'm not holding my breath.
:(  sigh...

The 17th hole "water feature" was added several years ago. It parallels the 17th green. Unfortunately Wellshire isn't being restored any time soon to my knowledge. The only work being done there is the closure of the lake on the property that doubled as the aqua driving range, and concomitant elimination of the small pond on the 10th hole that existed primarily due to drainage/seepage from said lake (actually that is an improvement). I play Wellshire a few times a year and each time I play it I wish someone would step in and do a restoration.  I have the original Ross drawings, and the Ross bones are there. Having seen some other Ross restorations like Wilmington Municipal and Minikahda, it could be exciting. If I could just win the Powerball lottery....
That would fantastic.
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2018, 08:25:06 PM »
Is Willshire in the league of CommonGround and/or Riverdale Dunes?


Possibly planning something for next summer.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: City Park GC Denver
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2018, 08:52:50 PM »
Is Willshire in the league of CommonGround and/or Riverdale Dunes?
Possibly planning something for next summer.

Mike,  No, but Wellshire could be really good with curated restoration work by someone who knows or cares about Ross courses.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

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