[Ira Fishman]

I am planning our first, and perhaps only, trip to Fife and East Lothian for next year.  We will only have enough time to play either Kingsbarns once or North Berwick twice.  I am leaning toward passing on Kingsbarns, but perhaps I am unfairly lumping it in my mind together with Castle Stuart which we enjoyed but would not feel less fulfilled in life had we not played it.


As always, thanks.


Ira

[Jay Mickle]

North Berwick twice nothing like it.

[Jeff Schley]

I have been to Scotland twice and played Kingsbarns my second trip and really enjoyed it.  It isn't a true links and the locals don't really think as highly of it because of this, the price tag, too much dirt moved, American architect perhaps I don't know.  It was fabulous IMO for what it is (not a links), but when you compare it against 180 pounds for TOC to 273 pounds to Kingsbarns I would play TOC again before Kingsbarns for sure.

I played North Berwick for my first and only time on that same trip and enjoyed it more than Kingsbarns, because it was history brought to life.  I have heard of their hole templates, Redan, Pit, Gate, Home.  It was all the history of the place which resonated with me.  If given the choice I'd play both, rather than North Berwick twice IMO, but I'm sure you will hear quite a few saying the opposite.  I think North Berwick was like 120 pounds or something and you can't justify paying more than double for Kingsbarns that is for sure.  However, I like variety and checking off another top 100 course was worth it to me.

Enjoy, as I certainly did.

[Howard Riefs]

I'd play NB twice. There's nothing like it... 

[Mark Chaplin]

Kingsbarns is very good but certainly not a fillet steak and very good bottle of red (£88) better than TOC. I’d choose NB.

[Sean_A]

What is a must play? If that is one of the top courses in Scotland, then yes, Kingsbarns is a must play.  If you are seeking intangibles beyond course quality, no, Kingsbarns is not a must play.

www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63005.0.html

Ciao

[astavrides]

A course that makes you feel more 'fulfilled in life' is a high bar. Also, I don't feel like I could give meaningful advice to someone who would play pasatiempo 9 times vs. 1 play of pacific dunes (if I remember your post correctly from a week or 2 ago). Having said all that, I had a hell of an enjoyable round the one time I played Kingsbarns.

[Thomas Dai]

Their website says its usually £268/18-holes main season, which is a lot of £££ in the UK.
Guess if you're travelling from afar or if you've got the £££ or can get a deal (like I believe a Scottish postcode home address will get you) then probably yes. But otherwise there may be other courses that for £268/18-holes can get you higher quality golf.
Just saying.
atb

[Mark Fedeli]

I brought a group of guys who were not GCA nuts on the same trip and we played both courses. Everyone agreed that our biggest regret of the trip was not playing North Berwick more than once. And everyone's least favorite course was Kingsbarns, but only because the style is reminiscent of so many modern oceanside links courses that we've played in recent years. We have incredible memories of North Berwick. We still talk about it to this day and have all sworn to go back. One of our guys almost named his kid Berwick in honor of it (the wife wasn't having it). Kingsbarns is very good, maybe even great, but North Berwick is transcendent and immediately became our favorite course we'd ever played.

[Ira Fishman]

A course that makes you feel more 'fulfilled in life' is a high bar. Also, I don't feel like I could give meaningful advice to someone who would play pasatiempo 9 times vs. 1 play of pacific dunes (if I remember your post correctly from a week or 2 ago). Having said all that, I had a hell of an enjoyable round the one time I played Kingsbarns.

LOL re my hyperbole about any course leading to fulfillment in life. It was 8-2 Pasatiempo v PD, but close enough for understanding your point.


Ira

[David Davis]

If it was going to be your only trip ever and you only had one day over. I'd play Muirfield and North Berwick. Less driving as well. In fact I'd play them both 2x in one day and squeeze 72 holes into your small gap.

[Matthew Essig]

North Berwick twice nothing like it.

I'd play NB twice. There's nothing like it... 

Play North Berwick twice. There is nothing like it!

[Mike Erdmann]

North Berwick twice, without a moment's hesitation. 

[Marty Bonnar]

Ira,
Fellow Monster of the Midway.

DO NOT MISS Kingsbarns.
Love,
M.

[Conley Hurst]

I was in Scotland last month for a couple of weeks and had the opportunity to play nine courses including the Old Course, Kingsbarns, North Berwick, Muirfield, Dunbar, Elie, and a few of the other St. Andrews courses.


Kingsbarns was a blast and, ideally, is not to be missed. But North Berwick was the only other course, in my opinion, that approached the Old in terms of sheer enjoyment, quirk, and challenge. My second favorite course in the UK. Would play it over Kingsbarns any day.

[Andy Shulman]

Kingsbarns is excellent and, depending on who you ask, is a must play.  However, you cross the ocean to play a course like North Berwick, so I'm with the majority and vote for the two rounds there.

[William_G]

no

[Brock Lynch]

I've been to St. Andrews twice now including a trip in July of this year. We also had the choice of playing Kingsbarns for £268 bp or any other course for less and, in many cases, far less. We chose to make a trip to North Berwick from St. Andrews and play 36 holes for 170 bp. All of us loved North Berwick and the people there we so nice it made for a great day. Don't forget about the other courses at St. Andrews! We bought a 3-day ticket and played all of the other courses besides the Old, some of them twice. Love St. Andrews and very much enjoyed our visit to North Berwick.

[Peter Pallotta]

Wow, took another look at Sean's profile of Kingsbarn. A very fine looking course indeed. The *only* drawback I could see is that it isn't in the middle of Wisconsin.....

[Peter Flory]

I was just out there and played them both.  Kingsbarns was much less modern and Americanized than I expected based on what I had read.  Maybe is was the drought, but it was browned out and the fairways were speedy. 


But even so, I would choose to play NB over it.  Just so much character, quirkiness, and memorability. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Ira,


I would play NB twice or if you can get on Muirfield. Even consider giving Kilspindie a twirl as it is similar in charm to Golspie with a course closer to Brora though in a slightly softened links terrain. KB is great especially for UK players but it does have a certain US feel and culture to it. It is not worth the price tag which Muirfield is (well at least for one time) and why travel so far to simply play something you can get at home?

[Mark Pearce]

No.  It's good but not as good as people say it is.  North Berwick is as good as people say it is.  Muirfield is better.


KB is designed to make you think you are better than you are, which adds to enjoyment for some, I guess.

[Matt MacIver]

If you want to see another great course, it’s an easy decision. If you want to learn one great course better, it’s an easy choice. If travel time or money is an issue, easy call.


I love Kingbarns and think about my one round there often. I would love to play there again, and again...but if I ever get back I will probably opt for different courses / no repeats, aside from TOC - because I like to see more courses for the variety, and the relative cost is off-putting.


Fingers-crossed I do get back over, preferably with a bunch of first-timers who have KB as a must-see: problem solved! 


Enjoy the trip.

[Niall C]

Ira

It’s apples and oranges comparing KB to NB as I think you surmise.

FWIW I’d suggest that KB is better than CS. KB still carries the Mark Parsinen trademark of look hard play easy but is from my point of view more interesting than CS and is good fun. That said, is playing a modern course that is an American take on links golf, why you want to come to Scotland ?

On the other hand NB has a bit of quirk, some iconic holes, some good golf and some OK golf. It also has a special place in the history of the game and has a wonderful setting. Setting aside the history etc., is it a good course ? I think so though not quite as good as some are making out bearing in mind that the reputation of the course, particularly overseas, is having a renaissance after being championed by the likes of Ran and Tom D.

Over the years I’ve been able to play both courses a number of times and all things being equal I’d probably have it fairly evenly matched in terms of the 10 game split, but then I’m already spoiled for links golf and KB offers something different. That probably isn’t the case for you.

Niall

[Ira Fishman]

Many thanks to all of you.  It is most heartening and helpful that so many people whose views resonate with me on other threads took the time to respond.


To my fellow Chicago Bears fans, Jeff and Marty, I think I am going to part company with you on this question.  But regular season is almost upon on us so we will be in fierce agreement every Sunday.  Jeff, when I bother to get a customized number on my golf balls, it 34.


Ira

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