[JESII]

I’d hate to be pigeon holed to only competitive rounds for discussing golf courses...unless a $5 Nassau counts as competition.

[Jason Hines]

Looking forward to comparing SH to Coul Links some day....

[JESII]

You'll hear that the common Nebraska golfer hasn't heard of Coul Links so it's a laughable comparison...

[Jason Hines]

I do so look down on those lowly Nebraskans.... Hey wait a minute...

[Mark Chaplin]

I had the good fortune to play TOC in a competition this afternoon, a stiff westerly blew which basically hinders on every shot.


Anyone can purchase a links ticket, there’s grades relating to the location of your main residence. The wait for non-locals is around 7 years.


The food at Sand Hills is good but expensive and nothing to gush about. The accommodation was disappointing.


I’ve mentioned SH to many of the Americans I’ve caddied for at St Andrews, none have played there and only a couple have even heard of it.


I’ve never heard of a group taking 5 hours, the marshals would be all over them. Our 4ball medal took 4h20m and the group ahead lost a complete hole so were slow.

[Jeff Schley]

I had the good fortune to play TOC in a competition this afternoon, a stiff westerly blew which basically hinders on every shot.


Anyone can purchase a links ticket, there’s grades relating to the location of your main residence. The wait for non-locals is around 7 years.


The food at Sand Hills is good but expensive and nothing to gush about. The accommodation was disappointing.


I’ve mentioned SH to many of the Americans I’ve caddied for at St Andrews, none have played there and only a couple have even heard of it.


I’ve never heard of a group taking 5 hours, the marshals would be all over them. Our 4ball medal took 4h20m and the group ahead lost a complete hole so were slow.

Mark I'm sure you engineered your ball around the course wonderfully considering the wind!
So in short you don't believe SH compares to TOC.

[Kalen Braley]

TOC is so good, they have to close it one day a week!  On a prime weekend day to boot...


I guess the old blue laws die hard...

[John Kavanaugh]

It was never my intention for this thread to say anything about Sand Hills detrimental to its greatness and deserved place in architectural history. It is and will always remain in my top ten courses no matter where I may venture in the future. I sincerely apologize if any feelings have been hurt in the process.

[Tom_Doak]

As I mentioned it's extremely difficult to get to, John of course disagreed but I'd call it extremely difficult if you live in the US.

My point was that it is not really any more difficult to get to than Bandon. You certainly don't need a helicopter. A 4-5 hour drive is inconvenient, but if you're going to Sand Hills to stay and play for a couple of days or more, it's worth the trouble. i don't think 10 hours of driving makes someone give an artificial boost to their assessment of the course. If anything, the amount of travel required makes one more likely to compare it to other long travel options in the UK.

Then you made one other comment that shows you missed what I was trying to say:
However, you said it like it's a given but you happen to be in an incredibly small group that has the luxury of access through friends etc there. Everyone can play the Old Course and I assure you far more people have played multiple rounds there than will ever play Sand Hills so you are really arguing from an extremely privelidged place if you want to throw that in.
 

I have both courses as 10's in my book so I have stayed out of this debate.  I see it as pointless.


But it's not just a question of GETTING TO Sand Hills, it's a question of getting there in a very short golf season.  They only host about 6000-7000 rounds per year, and many of those are member rounds.  It's silly to compare that to Bandon Dunes [40,000 rounds per year for the busier courses] or St. Andrews [50,000 rounds per year since God knows when].


And John is absolutely correct that far more people have ever played a bunch of rounds at St. Andrews than at Sand Hills.  Three or four of my former interns have played oodles of rounds at St. Andrews on the student pass.  The R & A has three times the membership of Sand Hills and I would wager that 75% of the members of the R&A have played St. Andrews more than the members of Sand Hills play it.  Tons of town residents play The Old Course a few times per year, though they gravitate to the other courses that are less busy.  And lots of international visitors go back there repeatedly.

[John Mayhugh]

Tom,

David is the one that made the obvious point that far more people have played many rounds at TOC. This unfortunately had nothing to do with what I was trying to say.

David posited that people might rate Sand Hills higher than TOC because of the arduous journey to play there.
I said that perhaps they like Sand Hills so much because multiple plays at SH gave them a chance to be more familiar with it.
Referring only to the subset of people who have played both SH & TOC, I suggested it's likely folks have more rounds at SH.

Of course, I may be wrong. I'm just trying to get away from the straw man discussion about access in general.

[Brian Finn]

Tom,

David is the one that made the obvious point that far more people have played many rounds at TOC. This unfortunately had nothing to do with what I was trying to say.

David posited that people might rate Sand Hills higher than TOC because of the arduous journey to play there.
I said that perhaps they like Sand Hills so much because multiple plays at SH gave them a chance to be more familiar with it.
Referring only to the subset of people who have played both SH & TOC, I suggested it's likely folks have more rounds at SH.

Of course, I may be wrong. I'm just trying to get away from the straw man discussion about access in general.

This is precisely my situation.  Living in the US and having been fortunate enough to receive invites to Sand Hills twice, I have a total of 9 or 10 full rounds there.  On the other hand, I have only had one opportunity to play The Old Course (plus a bonus Sunday stroll around). 

Each play at Sand Hills allowed me to learn more about, and build an appreciation for the course, particularly in seeing it in at least 3 of the 5 possible wind conditions (N/S/E/W/calm).  It's an amazing site and a brilliant golf course.

My only play at The Old Course came two years ago.  Everything about the experience was incredible, and (despite my poor play) I believe I was able to soak up lots of what makes the golf course special (not to mention the amazing setting, history, etc).  Like many here, I have a decent "golf memory" so I can recall holes, bunkers (especially Shell bunker, where I spent some quality time), and other distinct features of the course.  However, there is no substitute for seeing a course numerous times, as virtually everyone on this site would agree. 

On this basis, I currently rank Sand Hills ahead of The Old Course.  I'd certainly like to see both courses many more times, and reserve the right to change my opinion (on a day to day basis, if I feel like it).  I'm in the process of planning a trip to Scotland for next year, and I hope to see The Old Course again, but considering my current situation, I am more likely to play 5 more rounds at Sand Hills than 2 more at The Old Course. 

In my view, St. Andrews is the most special place in golf.  I hope to spend significant time there over the rest of my life, but to date my lone visit creates some bias in this discussion, based on (lack of) familiarity.

At the end of the day, I consider myself extremely lucky to be able to even participate in this discussion.  A few years back, I wouldn't have even dreamed of visiting so many of the world's best golf courses and places. 

[Mike Hendren]

Mike H, are the two shot holes mundane? I too think par 4's are the real guts of golf.

Sully, sorry I missed your question.  Barney asked for a weakness and frankly, I had to stretch to name one at Sand Hills, which I rate a 10.  There is absolutely nothing mundane about the par fours there - I just picked the only nit I could think of.  My opinion is more a reflection of how good and unique the par 3's and 5's are. 

Make sense?

Mike

[JESII]

Make sense?

Mike

Perfect!

[John Kavanaugh]

Of the six par threes in question isn't the Eden clearly the best?

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