In praise of Sand Valley!

[John Kavanaugh]

If you feel the need to call the police because young men are getting rowdy on a golf trip perhaps it's time to stay home. I do believe that getting sh-t faced, fighting on the putting green and keeping other guest awake is exactly how "golf was meant to be". You just have to have some patience and let these young lads learn how to wake up and play off a drunk. That takes some experience and it's that kind of experience that will grow the game.

John,


You're kidding....right?

The best golf memories are the ones told to you by your buddies because you can't remember them yourself.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I was at Sand Valley a month ago and the most striking thing for me was that the demographics trend significantly younger there than at most of the othet big resorts.  The green fees are more affordable to start, but the big savings is that a lot of guys don't have to buy an airline ticket to go there, and that $500 makes a big difference in who can swing it.  It was nice to see there is another generation on the way that enjoys good golf!

How many of those young guys were also staying on property, Tom? (Versus cheap motels in the area.)
I hear you about the green fees, but the lodging rates AND meal pricing (for central Wisconsin) are more in-line with mega-resorts. It's sad.


While the breakfast sandwiches and "halfway house fare" are a real bargain, the dinner pricing in the lodge rivals downtown Chicago restaurants and at about 1/3 the quality.


Several founders have made this known to "senior and junior".


Plus, with this new young crowd comes new challenges.
The drinking and overall rowdiness at Sand Valley has also become an issue with police called on several occasions I'm told.


Seems this new demographic also needs to understand another aspect of the game: respect.
Getting sh-t faced until the wee hours, fighting on the putting green and keeping other guests awake then playing your rounds in 5:15 because you "got so wasted last night" is definitely not "golf as it was meant to be"....

If you feel the need to call the police because young men are getting rowdy on a golf trip perhaps it's time to stay home. I do believe that getting sh-t faced, fighting on the putting green and keeping other guest awake is exactly how "golf was meant to be". You just have to have some patience and let these young lads learn how to wake up and play off a drunk. That takes some experience and it's that kind of experience that will grow the game.

Perhaps you are correct, as much as you do sound like a bridge-dwelling troll....


Like it has been pointed out, one can drive to SV. I can.
I like going on Mondays and Tuesdays.


I cede to you the weekends, JK, where you may frolic freely with your friends.
Cheers.

[PCCraig]

Interesting observations, Ian, on SV.


There is no doubt Bandon and SV have become big time "buddies trip" destinations. That leads to a certain culture for sure. I haven't witnessed fistfights during my evenings in the lodge at SV, but I don't doubt it I suppose.


You can always go to a place like Kohler and hang out with a bunch of 65 year old guys drinking red wine and complaining about how sore their ankles are?! 

[Ian Mackenzie]

Interesting observations, Ian, on SV.


There is no doubt Bandon and SV have become big time "buddies trip" destinations. That leads to a certain culture for sure. I haven't witnessed fistfights during my evenings in the lodge at SV, but I don't doubt it I suppose.


You can always go to a place like Kohler and hang out with a bunch of 65 year old guys drinking red wine and complaining about how sore their ankles are?! 

Pat, the main point I wanted to make is that, while green fees may be a fair value for the excellent golf, the lodging and food are priced on par with - as an example - the American Club,


Sure, nothing wrong with staying off property and still experiencing the great golf as you can also do that in Bandon. But my sense is that SV, like Bandon, really makes its $$ from guys flying in private.


Shocking number of rounds at Bandon come from golfers arriving via private jet.

[Sven Nilsen]

ian:


About 1 out of 20 groups at Bandon flies in private.


Is that shocking?

[Ian Mackenzie]

ian:


About 1 out of 20 groups at Bandon flies in private.


Is that shocking?

Heard a much different stat from a source who would know.
Not going to get into some sword fight with you, Sven.


Cheers.

[Sven Nilsen]

Ian:


Remember the seasons.  Winter time is a big equalizer on what you’re being told.


No sword fights necessary.  Just trust the guy on the ground.


1 in 20.


Sven

[John Kavanaugh]

5% of the hotel rooms in Bandon are being occupied by pilots. Hilarious to argue it could be more.

[Sven Nilsen]

5% of the hotel rooms in Bandon are being occupied by pilots. Hilarious to argue it could be more.

The pilots stay in Coos, its way more your speed up there.

[Tom_Doak]

How many of those young guys were also staying on property, Tom? (Versus cheap motels in the area.)
I hear you about the green fees, but the lodging rates AND meal pricing (for central Wisconsin) are more in-line with mega-resorts. It's sad.


While the breakfast sandwiches and "halfway house fare" are a real bargain, the dinner pricing in the lodge rivals downtown Chicago restaurants and at about 1/3 the quality.


Several founders have made this known to "senior and junior".

They want their 100 rooms to be full, so I suspect they are charging what the market will bear for those who are flying in, while those who can't or won't pay the price stay off campus.  Remember, the rooms in Wisconsin cost just the same to build but are only occupied for 7-8 months max, so the price has to be somwhat higher to get a return on investment.


Incidentally, the only reason we aren't building the new course already is that the tee sheet won't be full until they build more rooms to go with it - that's the expensive part.


I also thought the food for lunch and dinner was excellent.  People dissed the food at Bandon for years after it opened, too, and I've always thought it was good (though maybe I'm biased having met the chefs).


It costs good money to build a great golf course, pay the staff, etc.  The only reason to complain about price is if you don't think the golf course is good enough to justify it.

[Michael George]

I will never complain about the pricing at a Keiser resort after being to Pebble Beach, Kohler, Kiawah and several other places, which deliver 1 great golf course and a bunch of average courses, all at high prices.  $315 to play 36 holes on 2 great golf courses at Sand Valley is less than 1 round at Pebble, Whistling Straits or Ocean.   

The nice thing about Keiser properties is that the cost of the room/golf is known up front, but he doesn't rake you for the incidentals like food and beverage once you get on property. 


I thought the food was good at Sand Valley - their NY strip was incredibly good.  However, one suggestions - they shouldn't take reservations.  They had tables reserved all night for golfers that stayed empty because the group decided to go to bed instead of eat. 

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