[Michael Whitaker]

I visited Sand Valley last week and can report that Mr. Kiser absolutely, positively has another hit on his hands!!!


The Sand Valley Course is a Coore/Crenshaw classic. If you have played Sand Hills, Streamsong Red, Dormy Club or Friars Head you will recognize lots of what is on offer at Sand Valley. I know C&C don’t build “template” holes, but
many of the holes on SV are reminiscent of Sand Hills, Friars Head and Dormy Club, among others. It is a fabulous course and another hit on the C&C roster.


The big surprise for me was Mammoth Dunes!  I’m not a great fan of Kidd’s Bandon Dunes course, but Mammoth Dunes is amazing to play. Wide, with heaving topography and many centerline bunkers it is great fun. There is much more “up and down” to MD (in sort of a Doak style  ) but it doesn’t punish and allows every level of golfer the opportunity to tack around the course, providing a sense of success... maybe above what was really achieved. It is very dramatic, with lots of visual challenges. I’m a big fan!!


The 17 hole par three course is a blast and features one of the most accurate reproductions of a Redan you will ever play.


They are still working on their facilities with the main restaurant currently operating out of a tent, but work is progressing feverishly to get everything finished.


Traveling to SV is fairly easy for me as we have three flights a day to Detroit from Greenville, SC... so it’s a four hour flight to Milwaukee, then a 1:45hr drive to SV. A hell of a lot easier than Bandon or Cabot. I can see me visiting every year if they don’t do crazy with their pricing.


The one BIG problem:  THE FLIES! Flies in the restaurants... flies on the courses... flies on the patios. I can deal with flies when I’m outdoors, but I can’t handle flies constantly landing on my food, causing me to spend my entire meal waving them away and swatting at them. Needless to say... I HATE flies. I hope they can find an answer to this nasty problem!!!


Bottom line... if you haven’t been to Sand Valley make plans to get there. You will LOVE it! And, if you need a travel companion let me know... I’m ready to go back!!!   


Just don’t forget your bug repellent.

[Jim Hoak]

As one who has played several times at Bandon and one time at Sand Valley, I'd say that, maybe not yet, but soon, I'll take Sand Valley over Bandon.  It is still growing and maturing, but both SV courses are great--in the same league as the best BD has to offer, the accommodations are going to be as good, and the accessibility is much better.  Obviously, SV weather in the winter makes it unplayable, but when it is good weather, it is better.  Not the wind everyday of BD.
I loved it!!  But I do love Bandon too! 

[Daryl David]

It is still growing and maturing, but both SV courses are great--in the same league as the best BD has to offer

I really like Sand Valley too, but I think that assessment is a bit of stretch. Fine courses, but not in the same league as those at BD.  IMHO

[Mike Hendren]

I'll be there Sunday and Monday so thanks for the bug-spray recommendation, Whitty.  Any recommendation on clubs for the short course?  Will putter, sand wedge and 8-iron about do it?

Bogey

[Michael Whitaker]

Bogey,

You might need one or two more clubs to be able to play different shots... just for fun. A good number of the holes are not just about length as they offer opportunities to run one up or bounce one off a slope.

I played with Jordan Sandefer, a friend from LA, and he hit two tee shots on each hole... one with an iron, one with a putter! It was great fun. And, before you chastise is for hitting two tee shots let me explain that there were two groups of EIGHT ahead of us playing a scramble and we welcomed the opportunity to take our time and experience more of the course.

And... the resort provides at no charge “micro” pitch & putt golf bags for use on the par three course. They hold four or five clubs and are easy to carry with a handle.

[Andrew Buck]

Have the conditions on MD sufficiently firmed up in a similar manner to SV?  That was my main concern as of last last year. 

[Michael Whitaker]

Have the conditions on MD sufficiently firmed up in a similar manner to SV?  That was my main concern as of last last year.

Yes... very bouncy.

[Jim Tang]

I played 18 on Sand Valley and 18 on Mammoth Dunes yesterday.  As Michael says, the turf is very firm on both courses and playing conditions were ideal.  Both are great fun and I'm excited to see where the resort will go in the future.  There is so much great land there, the possibilities are endless.


With that said, I still prefer Bandon to Sand Valley.

[Jeff Schley]

Played here on Tuesday and it was impressive.  Loved the character of being secluded and the new housing going in.  Was fortunate to meet Mike keiser who was playing right behind us.  Us being me with two buddies and our Dan Moore. 


The sand got me literally as it was very loose and just couldn't get it out with some of the steep bunkers and ball sitting down.  Tough for me so tried four swings and picked up. 


Nice viers and would love to play mammouth and sandbix next trip.


Btw it is really up there with a four hour hike from the Windy City.

[David Royer]

Mike, I was able to visit in June.  While it is still a bit raw I think it's the perfect quick sand trip.  I was especially taken with the sandbox.  It may be one of the best new short courses being developed.   The amenities are the what you expect with Bandon. I was impressed with MD.  It's a fun course from any tee!   The courses are very walkable.  I hope they think their way through a third course.  With the pines the possibilities for a smaller scale more intimate course would fit perfectly with the size and scale of SV and MD.  I think it would be a nice offset.   Any news on Dixie??    Hard to type Dixie without thinking of Bill. Simply one of the best.   

[ward peyronnin]

I really liked both courses but preferred Mammoth. Sand Valley's holes are often framed by features and flow smoothly. MD routes you more against the grain and the yaw and pitch is maybe like a Yale( just a reference point not really a comparison). 

I also confess I putted the greens better as MD greens were pitched without being gnarly and still  interesting while Svs confounded more with microbreaks and humps and bumps. The grasses were superb and the fescue rough was a wispy and tousled and soft as those in Scotland this May
The wind was blowing and I did not experience the fly problem on course but my caddies were not promoting the issue so I didn't notice. They were irritating in the restaraunts.
There is a 160yd Redan , the 17th, on the sandbox. The rest of the holes were usually +/- 90yds

[ward peyronnin]

However the star of the trip was Lawsonia in my opinion. I was stunned how good it is and played

[Michael Whitaker]

However the star of the trip was Lawsonia in my opinion. I was stunned how good it is and played

+100

[Tom_Doak]

However the star of the trip was Lawsonia in my opinion. I was stunned how good it is and played

+100

This post is hard for me to reconcile with the opening post.  That's why the Doak Scale has numbers!    

[Ian Mackenzie]

I'll be there Sunday and Monday so thanks for the bug-spray recommendation, Whitty.  Any recommendation on clubs for the short course?  Will putter, sand wedge and 8-iron about do it?

Bogey

Bogey, you can grab a super small bag there to play the Sandbox.
I used 8, 9, P, 52 and 56, putter and used them all.
Bring a 60 and maybe drop the 9.
Needed 8 on 17th hole and that’s it.

[Tim Passalacqua]

I thought the place was terrific.  I also wanted to say that I loved both routings.  Great routings over nice, hilly property with short green to tee transfers.  SV might be the best C&C green to tee that I have seen.  I think that land was made perfectly with golf.  I am excited for the future of SV and can't wait to see it grew.  As a midwesterner now, it sure was easier to get to than Bandon.  Bandon is still my favorite place on earth, but SV was a strong second.  Really excellent for all the reasons stated above.

[Tyler Kearns]

However the star of the trip was Lawsonia in my opinion. I was stunned how good it is and played

Ward,


Played Lawsonia a few days ago, absolutely wonderful - I had high expectations, and they were exceeded!  It was a family trip to the Dells, so I can't make a comparison to Sand Valley.  Next time.


Tyler

[William_G]

they are flies in the restaurants and golf courses at Dismal as well

can't wait to visit SV with our buddies soon

always crazy to me to think of a 5 month golf season having lived on the west coast forever

Bandon sucks!

cheers

PS, Doak bait not taken, LOL

[John Cowden]

Time out!  Re Dismal, I’ve never, ever seen a fly in premises in several years of visits.  A moth or two, yes.  Big deal.   As for the back 10 on Red, plan on bugs and prepare for them generally until July, plus or minus, depending on winter/spring climate conditions.   It’s wild country, and so much the more special golf for it.

[Dan Smoot]

However the star of the trip was Lawsonia in my opinion. I was stunned how good it is and played

Ward,


Played Lawsonia a few days ago, absolutely wonderful - I had high expectations, and they were exceeded!  It was a family trip to the Dells, so I can't make a comparison to Sand Valley.  Next time.




Tyler

Played Sand Valley in 95 F and 95 RH.  It was a tough go.  I don't live in that climate so it made me desire late September.  Courses were great.  At this point, I prefer Bandon.  I think this will change on a follow up trip like Bandon Trails did for me.  Loved the way SV is run, very hospitable, first class.  Courses were in great shape.  I got a chuckle over the 3 temporary greens on SV.  I was expecting to see the normal greens in very patchy conditions coming out of the winter since that is the type of climate I live in.  The greens being held out of play were in much better condition than many public greens you might experience.  They were understandably wanting them to be in a condition where any extended play would not cause them to regress.

But a real treat was running down to play Lawsonia Links.  Loved it and truly felt like I was stepping back in time with the design.  Great layout, great conditions, loved the greens with the speed and shaping.  The bunkers need a little attention.  Far exceeded expectations for me too.  I don't think I would go to Sand Valley without placing this course on the agenda.

[Mike Hendren]

First, I must confess I don’t know that much about golf architecture. I do know what I like. I will back up my opinion later but after a weekend at Sand Valley I give Lawsonia an 8, Sand Valley a 7 and Mammoth Dunes a 6. 


Bandon is worth losing 2 days to travel for those with time and money - the golf architecture there is significantly superior to SV imho.

[Mike Hendren]

Should add that I adore The Sandbox. I have all but quit playing but would hit the Sandbox 3 days a week if in my vicinity. Keiser has invented “Hoot & Holler Golf.”

[Eric Smith]

Regarding Sand Valley to Bandon Dunes comparisons, I’ve been fortunate to visit both resorts twice and paid handsomely for the privilege each time (golf, beer, lodging and meals) and feel without question that Sand Valley is at level par with Bandon though it has only 3 courses (so far!) compared to 5 (about to be 6!!) at Bandon. I admit this could be due to the country boy bias in me as I love the trees in the sand at Bandon Trails and the courses at SV more than I love an ocean view. They remind me of those old black and white photos of Pine Valley that Joe Bausch first showed me when I was up in Philadelphia a few years ago. Sublime!!
 

[Michael Whitaker]

First, I must confess I don’t know that much about golf architecture. I do know what I like. I will back up my opinion later but after a weekend at Sand Valley I give Lawsonia an 8, Sand Valley a 7 and Mammoth Dunes a 6. 

Bandon is worth losing 2 days to travel for those with time and money - the golf architecture there is significantly superior to SV imho.

Bogie - SV does not have anything to compare to Bandon's Old McDonald, and it suffers in comparison with Bandon's amazing ocean views... but, the courses are very good. With just one play at SV versus my multiple plays at Bandon I'm not 100% sure, but I think SV is better than Bandon Trails and Mammoth Dunes is definitely better (in my mind) than Bandon Dunes. With Old Mac and Pacific Dunes Bandon definitely has more great architecture on offer, but SV can hold its own for what it does have. And, it's so different from Bandon I would never consider it a "one or the other" situation. I could see me visiting SV once a year... Bandon, on the other hand, would be on a two or three year rotation at best due to the travel difficulties and cost.

I'm glad to see you were also enamored with Lawsonia. I was impressed with the style of the design (sort of Raynor-like) and, as a senior golfer, I found the course very playable and a great walk. I really don't understand why this style of course was abandoned. As popular as Macdonald/Raynor/Langford/Moreau courses are one would think that some modern architect would have continued in their path and adopted this style.

[Mike Hendren]

Mike, I can’t figure Old Mac out.  Felt like a bag of tricks to me - a very good bag. BD benefits from being 1st and returning 9’s but there’s plenty of pestrian stuff there including the 1st two holes. PD and BT are a push in my book - 9’s each.  I just don’t see the level of craftsmanship at SV that exists at PD and Trails.  Many of Mammoths fairways look like someone spilled a gallon of green paint and let it flow wherever it wanted and it seemed that the architect got paid per sf of green.


Eric,as for the PV “look” Doak’s 7th at  PD and C&C’s one shot 14th (?) are closer than anything at Mammoth.


Respectfully,
Bogues.

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