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Mark Pearce

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2018, 01:24:00 AM »
Peter,


As Matthew says, even in winter links golf can be firm and fast.  Just not as firm and fast.  And links golf has always been year round.  IKt's easy for soft southern links golfers to play most of their golf in the winter and shoulder seasons but get up to Dornoch and it's barely light enough to play golf in the depths of winter.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2018, 03:09:06 AM »

Mark,


it is rare you post such inaccurate information  ;) as you should know that golf was originally a winter sport only as this was the only time the grass was grazed short enough to allow play. But as you point out in modern times (read the last 200 years) links golf has been all year round.


Matthew,


as David says, this year has been an exception with only two days with any real rainfall since mid-April (one of which today) it has been very dry. Add in the 30C (85F) heat and it is something that last occurred in 1976.


Finally,


Mark despite the lack of daylight up here in mid winter where it is only light enough for golf from 9am through to 3.30pm this still gives enough time for 36 holes at an average winter pace. Of course if this were in summer when the riffraff are allowed out over Dornoch then it might only be enough for a slow nine ;D

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2018, 03:29:48 AM »
Interesting, the last 200 years is modern times for golf...that might be an opinion very few hold  8)

I know folks get jacked up for cookie brown golf, but lets be clear, its not sustainable and if this is the case, are conditions perfect?  I would argue that we don't want divots disintegrating and billowing dust except in the fairly rare cases when nature demands it for short periods of time, but these conditions can't go too long or courses would die if they get a decent amount of traffic.  That much is clear because greens continue to be watered (and cut less) during these times even if there is no fairway irrigation.  Links is the prime example of seasonal golf, so yes, the seasons should have a major impact on course presentation.  The goal shouldn't be to present the course the same each day. However, courses still need to be sustained and all courses eventually need water.  My idea of perfect conditions are those which push a bit against nature, but remain comfortably safe sor sustainabilty and affordability.  This is when supers and green comms can really cooperate so the best can be had from the course.

Ciao
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 05:16:43 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Colin Macqueen

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2018, 06:12:02 AM »
Gentlemen,
When was the last time that Carnoustie got so much love and attention!?
Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2018, 08:10:30 PM »

Mark despite the lack of daylight up here in mid winter where it is only light enough for golf from 9am through to 3.30pm this still gives enough time for 36 holes at an average winter pace. Of course if this were in summer when the riffraff are allowed out over Dornoch then it might only be enough for a slow nine ;D

Hey, I resemble that!

Question:  Does Carnoustie play harder in bone-dry condition or after a good soaking, assuming the same normal winds?

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2018, 08:39:03 PM »
Lou,


Goin to jump in with a guess that a wet longer course would play tougher for us mortals and a dry hopping course more difficult for the exacting professional experts for whom distance is less a consideration.


I hope you and yours are well.



"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2018, 10:27:20 AM »
Lou,


Goin to jump in with a guess that a wet longer course would play tougher for us mortals and a dry hopping course more difficult for the exacting professional experts for whom distance is less a consideration.


I hope you and yours are well.



+1

Kalen Braley

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2018, 11:01:03 AM »
This is in line with the other articles I've been seeing on the UK.  Doesn't appear to be just another summer dry spell in the region.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5928293/DROUGHT-order-Reservoirs-run-dry-46-day-dry-spell.html


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6701166/uk-weather-heatwave-longest-hotspell-britain-42-years/

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2018, 04:41:22 PM »
This is in line with the other articles I've been seeing on the UK.  Doesn't appear to be just another summer dry spell in the region.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5928293/DROUGHT-order-Reservoirs-run-dry-46-day-dry-spell.html


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6701166/uk-weather-heatwave-longest-hotspell-britain-42-years/


Funny enough the weather link at the bottom of the dailymail article projects thunderstorms over Carnoustie next week.

Matthew Essig

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2018, 05:20:51 PM »
This is in line with the other articles I've been seeing on the UK.  Doesn't appear to be just another summer dry spell in the region.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5928293/DROUGHT-order-Reservoirs-run-dry-46-day-dry-spell.html


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6701166/uk-weather-heatwave-longest-hotspell-britain-42-years/


Funny enough the weather link at the bottom of the dailymail article projects thunderstorms over Carnoustie next week.

Alex,

Since you peaked my curiosity about the weather, I decided to go look it up.

50% of showers Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday! It also looks like the wind won't be up those days.

But then again, a weather forecast can change a lot in week

"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2018, 06:25:19 PM »
Mike C-

That would be my thinking as well, but the Nelson at a very firm Trinity Forest suggested that the great players can pretty much adapt to anything.  Perhaps wind (which was largely missing) is the wild card.  Rough and water hazards as well, both factors at Carnoustie.

Hope all is well with the Cirbas as well.  Looking forward to Cobb Creek getting off the ground.

David_Tepper

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« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 08:39:33 AM by David_Tepper »

Peter Flory

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2018, 05:48:17 PM »
I was just watching the golf channel's pre tournament coverage and noticed the crazy contrast between the bright green colored greens and the totally burnt out rest of the course.  It looks really strange. 


I'm assuming they are just trying to keep the greens alive, but will a shot 1 yard short of the green bounce over while one that is one yard on check up?  Haven't they let the greens go brown in the past? 

Garland Bayley

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2018, 08:24:25 PM »
Tiger on how Carnoustie is playing:

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/24105109/tiger-woods-plays-carnoustie-practice-round-ahead-open-championship

This week's weather forecast. No rain expected:

https://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Carnoustie/long.html

Tiger "The fairways are running faster than the greens"
I was just watching the golf channel's pre tournament coverage and noticed the crazy contrast between the bright green colored greens and the totally burnt out rest of the course.  It looks really strange. 


I'm assuming they are just trying to keep the greens alive, but will a shot 1 yard short of the green bounce over while one that is one yard on check up?  Haven't they let the greens go brown in the past? 
Perhaps Tiger has already answered your question. And, my recollections is that yes they let the greens go brown in the past.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2018, 08:27:27 PM »
I was just watching the golf channel's pre tournament coverage and noticed the crazy contrast between the bright green colored greens and the totally burnt out rest of the course.  It looks really strange. 

I'm assuming they are just trying to keep the greens alive, but will a shot 1 yard short of the green bounce over while one that is one yard on check up?  Haven't they let the greens go brown in the past?

This is the main issue when courses get so crispy. The balance of firmness between fairways, aprons and greens gets out of whack. One can't blame supers for not allowing their greens to burn out with so much concentrated traffic.  To me, last week at Gullane looked pretty good and about the best we can hope for. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Michael Tamburrini

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2018, 01:52:04 AM »
I don't think I've ever seen such a contast between fairway and green. It's like the greens were imported straight from Florida.


The ground game will be pointless with it being so soft, which is a shame.

Peter Flory

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2018, 02:19:05 AM »
Looks like it is playing incredibly easy.  They are shooting darts from close range. 

Jon Wiggett

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2018, 03:16:25 AM »
I think they will start to let the greens brown off a little through the tournament.

Niall C

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2018, 03:19:59 AM »
With a bit of rain overnight, as expected, will they get the chance to brown off ?

Niall

Matthew Essig

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2018, 06:21:38 AM »
With a bit of rain overnight, as expected, will they get the chance to brown off ?

Niall

My guess is not until Sunday
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2018, 02:44:07 PM »
I spent July in Scotland in 1989 and they experienced a similar summer, very hot with no rain. It was impossible to make putts on TOC as they refused to water for fear of the “meadow grass” taking over; obviously trying to maintain their fescue sward. We really enjoyed going to Carnoustie where the greens had that lime green tinge indicating that watering had encouraged Poa Annua. I suspect they still have a high percentage of Poa which in the long run makes it much easier to make putts in the 4-10 foot range.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Thomas Dai

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2018, 02:49:46 PM »
The forecast for tonight/tomorrow seems to be for rain. To what extent and if it soaks in though......
Atb

Jon Wiggett

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Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2018, 03:42:29 PM »
I spent July in Scotland in 1989 and they experienced a similar summer, very hot with no rain. It was impossible to make putts on TOC as they refused to water for fear of the “meadow grass” taking over; obviously trying to maintain their fescue sward. We really enjoyed going to Carnoustie where the greens had that lime green tinge indicating that watering had encouraged Poa Annua. I suspect they still have a high percentage of Poa which in the long run makes it much easier to make putts in the 4-10 foot range.



Pete,


is this post your novel attempt to get thrown off the site ;D

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2018, 07:21:29 PM »
I spent July in Scotland in 1989 and they experienced a similar summer, very hot with no rain. It was impossible to make putts on TOC as they refused to water for fear of the “meadow grass” taking over; obviously trying to maintain their fescue sward. We really enjoyed going to Carnoustie where the greens had that lime green tinge indicating that watering had encouraged Poa Annua. I suspect they still have a high percentage of Poa which in the long run makes it much easier to make putts in the 4-10 foot range.


Go straight to the front of the queue for membership of the greens committee.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Dry Is Carnoustie?
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2018, 08:19:32 AM »
I would love to have watched the recently deceased golfing great, Peter Thomson, play Carnoustie in these conditions.
Atb

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