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JWinick

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Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« on: July 04, 2018, 09:28:43 PM »
We had an epic trip visiting three courses in the Boston area, and then heading to Nova Scotia for 36 holes twice at Cabot Links / Cliffs and 18 at Highland Links.

Boston


We got in Wednesday and connected at Fenway for a great Sox / Angels game.   I hadn’t been to Fenway in two decades, so this was a real treat.   The area around Fenway used to be kind of sketchy – now, it’s a bustling neighborhood like Wrigley’s.     
The next morning, we headed to Essex County Club.    Ten grass tennis courts made a remarkable impression on us all, as there are less than 100 grass tennis courts in the US period.    We played the front nine in a heavy rainstorm, and the siren blew after our front nine.   The front nine was great, but we had heard the back nine was even better, so we decided to finish the following afternoon. 


After waiting it out a bit, we decided to head over to Boston Golf Club.   While we only got 12 holes in, we could tell that Boston Golf Club was a great modern course.    Gil Hanse still meets with the greens committee on a regular basis, as it remains his baby.  The member who hosted us was amazingly gracious, waiting out a few lighting delays with two young kids at home!    It’s a great modern golf course that could both test the better players while still being a lot of fun for the rest of us.


The following day, we played Myopia Hunt Club.   Visiting Myopia is like a walk back into the early 20th Century.    Accidently, we entered the club through the Polo entrance – and they have two large polo fields.    It’s interesting that the members either play polo or golf/tennis.   Few do both.     The head pro was great, and we did some serious damage in the pro shop as their logo is one of the best in golf.    The golf experience was great – a pure sporty golf course at its best.   


Afterwards, we headed back to Essex County Club and enjoyed the back 9.    That back 9 is as good of a back nine as I’ve played anywhere in the US.   It was the consensus favorite course in Boston on the trip, although we love the other two as well.

Nova Scotia


That night, we flew into Halifax.   Our tee time at Highland Links the next day was 1PM and we were finally on the road shortly after 11PM.    It was 5 hours to Highland Links and we seriously considered driving all the way, but the hotel room options were limited and rustic, so we crashed at a Holiday Inn Express and drove the following morning.


I know all of you on this board recommended we play Highland Links.    On the plus side, it was an amazing drive getting there, as you pretty much take most of the Cabot Trail.    The golf course is on an amazing piece of property.   I saw my first bald eagle ever, for example.    However, the course is in such poor condition that we all felt the drive and the cost ($150 / or so) to not be worth it.   We are all fine playing a course that is not manicured, but the conditioning was simply awful – similar to a muni golf course at a premium price.   We heard later that the management company runs golf courses at a bare minimum level and it shows.   In retrospect I am glad we went there, but we would never go back again.


We then headed to Cabot Links and were pleased that we got an amazing upgrade – a 4-bedroom, 4 bath villa that was the best golf accommodations we ever had with a great view of the 1st hole green on Cabot Links.    It was too late for us to play, but we hit the driving range before heading back for two nights of lobster feats.   If you stay there, you must stop at this lobster place in town that just opened called “The Westside Cookhouse.”    The food at Cabot isn’t great, but it’s hard to beat lobster anyway.    We had like 8 lobsters and desserts for like $250 Canadian cooked for us.


The next two days, we played 36 holes at both the Cabot Cliffs and Links Courses.    Cabot Links was great with 17 solid golf holes. I didn’t care for the third hole, a “drivable” par 4 where I don’t think you can hold the green from any of the safe angles.    But, maybe that was because I made double both times!    The caddies who can play either course for $10 prefer the Links course as they are better players.   The Links is certainly harder with narrower fairways and much more trouble in play.   


Cabot Cliffs was the most outstanding golf course I’ve played, and I have a pretty good resume (I’ve played probably 40 of the top 100 in the world.    The finish from 15-18 is the best finish in all of golf.   I know some people don’t like 17 because it’s a drivable par 4 with a blind tee shot, but we all enjoyed it.   One of our playing partners (in route to shooting 4-under) hit the green in the middle of a dense fog.   You can actually putt the ball onto the green from the drop area!    I had the misfortunate on 15 of both putting and chipping it into the same bunker on the same hole!   18 is a great par-5 finisher, although a bit short.   One of our playing partners had 127 yard in on his second shot.    I enjoyed two putting for birdie on the last hole we played.


Anyway, I’ll post pictures later, but it was an amazing trip.    I think Cabot will be Bandon’s equal as soon as they get their third course.   

David_Tepper

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 10:32:50 PM »
"as there are less than 100 grass tennis courts in the US period."

JWinick -

Are you sure about that? In addition to Essex, off the top of my head I can think of Sea Bright LTC, Orange LTC, Merion CC, Philadelphia CC, West Side TC (Forest Hills), Rockaway Hunt, Maidstone, Longwood CC and the Newport Pavilion. I think each of those clubs have at least 10 courts.

https://www.active.com/tennis/articles/10-grass-court-tennis-destinations

The Wessen LTC opened in 2014 with 24 grass courts.

http://www.wessenlawntennis.com/

DT
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 10:38:11 PM by David_Tepper »

JWinick

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 11:45:30 PM »

Fair point - I don't know the precise number, but there are not a lot of grass courts and almost none in the rest of the country besides the east coast.   Ten is certainly impressive!

"as there are less than 100 grass tennis courts in the US period."

JWinick -

Are you sure about that? In addition to Essex, off the top of my head I can think of Sea Bright LTC, Orange LTC, Merion CC, Philadelphia CC, West Side TC (Forest Hills), Rockaway Hunt, Maidstone, Longwood CC and the Newport Pavilion. I think each of those clubs have at least 10 courts.

https://www.active.com/tennis/articles/10-grass-court-tennis-destinations

The Wessen LTC opened in 2014 with 24 grass courts.

http://www.wessenlawntennis.com/

DT
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 01:35:29 PM by JWinick »

Jeff Schley

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 04:33:37 AM »
Nice write up!  I'm heading to Essex CC in a couple weeks and certainly will be a highlight, glad you enjoyed it.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 09:12:46 AM »
If your playing partner had 127 into 18, you guys had a very unusual wind direction.


I just came back from Cabot as well and in order I’d return to Highlands then Links then Cliffs.

JWinick

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 09:36:06 AM »

Mark,


Did you recently play Highlands?   If so, I guess we have a different opinion on conditioning.   I'm fine playing a modestly manicured golf course (like say Lawsonia) and still enjoying it a lot, but Highlands conditioning is frankly embarrassing.   Nearly every green had spots that were not puttable.   Shouldn't the course be in at least average conditioning if you're going to pay $150?  The consensus at least from people I talked to at Cabot was that the new management doesn't care and is just bleeding the course dry and living off their former top-100 world status.   


I think driving 5 hours and paying $150 is a waste of time....   Just my thoughts - I certainly respect those who differ.



If your playing partner had 127 into 18, you guys had a very unusual wind direction.


I just came back from Cabot as well and in order I’d return to Highlands then Links then Cliffs.

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2018, 06:47:32 PM »
Cabot Links was great with 17 solid golf holes. I didn’t care for the third hole, a “drivable” par 4 where I don’t think you can hold the green from any of the safe angles.    But, maybe that was because I made double both times!   
In Ran's review of Cabot Links this hole is mentioned as being similar to Riviera's tenth hole.

Matt Kardash

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2018, 07:53:34 PM »
Cabot Links was great with 17 solid golf holes. I didn’t care for the third hole, a “drivable” par 4 where I don’t think you can hold the green from any of the safe angles.    But, maybe that was because I made double both times!   
In Ran's review of Cabot Links this hole is mentioned as being similar to Riviera's tenth hole.
I don't get the similarity to Riviera at all. The 10th at Riviera is defined by such a tough second shot. There is nothing particularly difficult about the 2nd shot at Cabot. I really enjoy the hole, but to me they are very different.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2018, 08:50:28 PM »
The main similarities would be the length, dogleg right shape and green set at an angle to the hole. But you are right that the second shot isn’t challenging unless you are behind the mound. The green does run away so you want to land it short.


This reminds me - I wonder why Ran hasn’t done a course review of Cabot Cliffs?  Surely it is one of the more well known courses built in recent years and Ran has been there.

Doug Hodgson

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2018, 10:05:18 PM »
I played both Cabot courses last year and I find them to be everything they are made out to be.  Two very different courses.  About 10 years ago I played Bell Bay and Highlands.  BB is OK, worth playing if you are nearby but not more.  Highlands is a spectacular layout full of truly great holes.  Sorry to hear about its conditioning but even in 2008 it was disappointing.  The greens are among the most interestingly contoured I have ever seen but they were so very very slow that it significantly detracted from my enjoyment.  Similar to Yale in the sense of a great jewel compromised by criminal neglect

JWinick

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2018, 10:53:08 PM »

I don't think so - as the 10th at Riviera does not have a hazard running down the entire right side.    I just didn't like the hole.   It didn't help that I played it twice terribly!

Cabot Links was great with 17 solid golf holes. I didn’t care for the third hole, a “drivable” par 4 where I don’t think you can hold the green from any of the safe angles.    But, maybe that was because I made double both times!   
In Ran's review of Cabot Links this hole is mentioned as being similar to Riviera's tenth hole.

JWinick

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2018, 10:55:46 PM »

It was the worst conditioned course for more than $100 I've ever played.   Probably for more than $50 too.   I'd rather be honest and let people decide because I'd hate for someone to go 6 hours out of their way and not know what they are getting into.   


Having said that, it could be great again, and the property and design are great.   

I played both Cabot courses last year and I find them to be everything they are made out to be.  Two very different courses.  About 10 years ago I played Bell Bay and Highlands.  BB is OK, worth playing if you are nearby but not more.  Highlands is a spectacular layout full of truly great holes.  Sorry to hear about its conditioning but even in 2008 it was disappointing.  The greens are among the most interestingly contoured I have ever seen but they were so very very slow that it significantly detracted from my enjoyment.  Similar to Yale in the sense of a great jewel compromised by criminal neglect

JWinick

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« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 11:08:15 PM by JWinick »

JWinick

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2018, 11:06:56 PM »
Barstool sports had a great review of Cabot.... It's a little long, but I agreed with most of what they said.    https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/five-days-in-heaven-a-full-cabot-cliffs-review/
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 11:08:40 PM by JWinick »

SL_Solow

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2018, 11:32:52 PM »
Its been a couple of years since I made the trip.  If you are interested in architecture, Highlands is a must see.  Conditioning is less than ideal but that does not change the brilliance of the routing and the variety of challenges provided by Thompson.  As far as Trip Adviser and its ilk, perhaps I am a snob but the level of architectural sophistication exhibited there makes it one of the last places I would think that anyone who spends time on a site like this would consider in planning a trip.  I recall Tom Watson suggesting something to the effect that if a course had to be in great condition to be interesting, the architecture must not be very good.  I appreciate good conditioning as much as the next person having spent years as a greens chair and good conditions show off all that a course has to offer, but if you can't appreciate the architecture for want of top conditions I suspect that you are less interested in the art than many of us here.




Finally, Cabot is truly outstanding and well worth the travel hassles.  When they improve the airport there will be real problems getting on the courses.

David Davis

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2018, 09:24:28 AM »
I too made the trip up to Cabot and Highlands Links end of August last year.


I guess you are probably use to US private club maintenance standards. You kind of have to take things in stride, consider where it's located, imagine the budget and number of greenkeepers they have to work with and indeed judge it based on GCA rather than grass blades being out of place.


If you looked at courses in Europe or the UK based on average maintenance standards of a high end public course in the US, for example something like Pasatiempo then in the mortal words of Judas Priest, "You got another thing coming!"


I thought the experience and routing made it well worth the trip up. The short par 4, 4th hole was probably my favorite hole on the course with that crazy volcano-esque green that even as a bonus afforded the spectacular and unexpected view, which I only noticed after I'd holed out given the green and surrounds commanded all my attention and interest. However, that stretch is just spectacular. I was less enthusiastic about what some call the greatest walk in golf....I mean being from Oregon, I grew up with trees all around and even creeks and I can think of many more spectacular walks between holes in golf. Sorry Adam Lawrence  :P  I know you love it.


In short the crazy bumpy fairways, wonderful green complexes and utilization of the natural terrain make it a wonderful place to study Stanley Thompson and GCA in general.


No need to comment on Cabot as everyone seems to like/love that.
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Erik Mosley

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2018, 09:28:14 AM »
I played Highlands in late May and assumed the poor green conditions were due to some winter kill (course had only opened a week prior), so it's disappointing that the conditions are still poor.  The greens were the only thing that were poor when I was there though - while not pristine, the rest of the course was in decent shape outside of the 6th fairway.  That being said, they had a stay and play rate for $260 for 2 people that included 2 rounds per person and a night in a nice room at the lodge.  At that rate, I honestly didn't care if there was a single blade of grass under my ball - the architecture was that impressive.

Frank M

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip New
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2018, 11:00:10 AM »
The issue with Highlands Links is that it's always — not just sometimes — a complete crapshoot in terms of conditioning with the conditions never reaching a very good level. You're either going to get horrible or barely acceptable.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2024, 01:42:30 AM by Frank M »

Brad Tufts

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2018, 11:59:42 AM »

It makes you wonder if the Cabot group would ever start a management arm and run Highland someday.


Reminds me of a Marshall Dodge-esque Northwoods quote I once heard, "wheah you got gub'ment, you got a f*ckup!"


I feel like alot of the complaints come from those who play Highland in June...play it in August/Sept/Oct when the conditions have a chance! 


My trip in 2015 was in early August, and there was still winterkill everywhere in Nova Scotia/PEI, although I didn't consider the conditions at Highland to be terrible, just "rustic."
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2018, 12:38:37 PM »

It makes you wonder if the Cabot group would ever start a management arm and run Highland someday.

Reminds me of a Marshall Dodge-esque Northwoods quote I once heard, "wheah you got gub'ment, you got a f*ckup!"

I feel like alot of the complaints come from those who play Highland in June...play it in August/Sept/Oct when the conditions have a chance! 

My trip in 2015 was in early August, and there was still winterkill everywhere in Nova Scotia/PEI, although I didn't consider the conditions at Highland to be terrible, just "rustic."


When Parks Canada was looking to contract out the management of Highlands a few years ago, there was quite a lot of pressure applied to Ben and the team at Cabot to take it on; in the end, the capital required to renovate the Keltic Lodge was, I believe, the factor that killed any chance of a deal.


Slightly unfair to blame the government when the place is being run by a private management company.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

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www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

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Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Frank M

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip New
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2018, 01:54:52 PM »
Slightly unfair to blame the government when the place is being run by a private management company.


Are you implying government shouldn’t be held responsible for the contracts they tender, or, in this case, the lease they negotiate?

I’d place the blame squarely on the government for allowing this situation to even have the possibility to occur. It’s shameful really, even from a non-golf perspective.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2024, 01:42:01 AM by Frank M »

Brad Tufts

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2018, 02:04:13 PM »

Wow, interesting on the pressure and the Cabot team almost managing it.  Too bad it didn't work out.


On the government thing, perhaps it's unfair, but there is skill in choosing the right management company, and funding it to the point where conditions will be decent...but there are always other factors (like capital needed to renovate the KL).


For instance Boston hired the wrong company for George Wright and Franklin Park, and were seemingly locked in for a while before extricating themselves from the predicament.  After ridding themselves of the poor management company, they spent 10+ years putting the courses back together, culminating with the hosting of the Massachusetts Amateur this week!


So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Kalen Braley

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2018, 02:26:11 PM »
Seems like the mistake was in coupling the Lodge with the course.  Perhaps they could have been separated?  How many times have we seen a Lodge/Clubhouse act as proverbial millstone around the neck of an otherwise good course...

Greg McMullin

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2018, 03:09:26 PM »
As a native Cape Bretoner I have been playing Cape Breton Highlands since 1971. While not having lived on the island for many years I have traveled to Highlands every summer for many years and have likely played the course 100 times anywhere from June to October in all types of weather conditions and a wide range of course conditions.
With this in mind I would point out that the course hasn’t had an experienced full time Course Superintendent in many many years and while I know next to nothing about agronomy I do know that an essential component of a successful golf course is an experienced full time Super with proper resources to execute his plan.
Given Highlands location, climate and the fact that there hasn’t been a superintendent in years it’s easy to conclude that the condition of the course would be less than optimal regardless of any other factors.
What is interesting to me is why Golf North would sign a 42 year lease with the government, have knowledge that conditions at the course have been its  Achilles heel  and not put the necessary turf crew resources in place to improve the condition of the course and capitalize on the increased golfer traffic that Cabot has brought to the island. As it stands now word of mouth, as far as conditions are concerned, is not good and not good for business.  With good conditions players would come away saying “wow” instead of expressing disappointment and no desire to return.
Some Background:
For those that may not know the course was officially opened on July 1, 1941. The Keltic Lodge that stands today was built in 1951. The golf course sits on Federal Lands owned by the Federal Government and under the purview of Parks Canada and the Lodge sits on the same federal land but is owned by the Province of Nova Scotia. Prior to the 2015 lease agreement with Golf North the Lodge was managed under contract by New Castle Hotels and Resorts and the course was managed by Parks Canada.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Cabot Cliffs / Links and Boston Trip
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2018, 05:16:31 PM »
Greg,


Seems like its a slowly dying cash cow of sorts. I'm not sure what % of play is bucket list out-of-towners who will likely only get up that way just once... but I wouldn't be surprised if they work on this premise and don't bother with proper upkeep? 


Especially now that they don't have to do anything to attract them to the region....

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