[Dean Stokes]

Watching the last round of the Open at
Birkdale.
Is this the best course in England.  I Was there and watched a practice round. Every hole is solid.
Kuchar and Speith just played #12 and it caused them headaches. Simple looking hole but there’s no miss!


What you think?

[Bill Gayne]

For Open rota courses it may be the best for the pros but for me to play it's Royal St Georges.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Birkdale doesn't get a lot of love on this website. It is in my top English ten behind Sunningdale (both) Ganton, RSG, Deal, Rye, and Swinley Forest.

[Jon Wiggett]

Dean,


Birkdale is a great course with no weak holes and a couple of really great ones including what is for me the best opener on a top course. It doesn't get a lot of love on here due to its' perceived lack of quirk as far as I can tell. Great course, great holes, great setting and great atmosphere so what is not to like.


Favourite hole for me is the 15th.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Another plus for me is the fine clubhouse, like an Atlantic liner.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Another plus for me is the fine clubhouse, like an Atlantic liner.

Mark, I tried to like the clubhouse. Just can't manage it. I do like it inside looking out over the 18th green.

[Mark Chaplin]

My only dislike at Royal Birkdale is the flat fairways between the dunes. Shots end up exactly where they were hit, great in Georgia or Texas but not really links golf.

[Jon Wiggett]

My only dislike at Royal Birkdale is the flat fairways between the dunes. Shots end up exactly where they were hit, great in Georgia or Texas but not really links golf.

This is something that is often thrown at Birkdale and maybe it would be more interesting were some more movement introduced to some holes but it is certainly not as devoid of movement as many proclaim and it is the natural state of the land. Funnily enough the last time I played TOC the only uneven stances I got were in the semi rough. On the fairway, due to the low height of cut the ball always rolled down to the level ground.

[Mark Chaplin]

The Home End (1 & 18 fairways) was apparently running at 8.5 on the stimp a couple of weeks ago. It maybe a super wide fairway but get a ball running and there’s little to stop it.

[David Davis]

My only dislike at Royal Birkdale is the flat fairways between the dunes. Shots end up exactly where they were hit, great in Georgia or Texas but not really links golf.

This is something that is often thrown at Birkdale and maybe it would be more interesting were some more movement introduced to some holes but it is certainly not as devoid of movement as many proclaim and it is the natural state of the land. Funnily enough the last time I played TOC the only uneven stances I got were in the semi rough. On the fairway, due to the low height of cut the ball always rolled down to the level ground.

Jon,


I have to admit to feeling the same way about Birkdale as some of the critics. It a really fun day out but due to how it was routed it feels like the simply took tractors and plowed the fields flat inbetween the dunes, then nestled the greens into the amphitheaters that the dunes create. I know it's said this was not the case but Hillside across the street doesn't seem to share the flat experience but does share almost the same stretch of land.


The pros love the course because it's sublte and fair. That in and of itself almost says enough. I'm not sure it's about quirk though it's definitely lacking there. It could be more about lack of creativity in the routing and seems as though it's been set up for spectators as opposed to delivering the ultimate playing experience on the land they were given. Anyway, my comments are too harsh I'm sure as Birkdale is a must play but it may be my least favorite of the Open Rota courses I've played. (all but Musselburgh).

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Personally one of my favourite courses anywhere.
Perhaps the reason I do like it so much is the same reason many do not...Its 'FAIRNESS' and lack of real quirk.
I know most expect quirk from a links course, but I never understand why Royal B doesnt get more love.
I just returned from home and played New Zealand and Woking, both running fast after the recent great weather.
Both very well regarded by all on here, both with flat fairways and very little quirk...but because it is a links course RB all of sudden is less of a course ?
I just dont get that way of thinking.
Of course the players at the Open love it..it is more"fair"I really dont see a problem with that, especially when you have a scorecard in your pocket.
Thats what I love about this game and this site, so many differing opinions and viewpoints.

[JMEvensky]

Where you been M W-P?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Where you been M W-P?

On hiatus
But I am back

[Sean_A]

Birkdale feels like an early modern links to me, designed for spectator viewing and eliminating quirk.  In essence, it is what most would look for to hold a modern major and I don't think that is by accident.  I never thought it was as interesting as nearby Formby, but I wouldn't say there is anything between them in terms of quality.  Neither quite make top 10 England for me, bit thats a tough list to crack. I guess at the end of the day I want some quirk in my links and Birkdale seems to have eliminated any that may have existed long ago...except for the recent green change people howled about...it was by far the most interesting on the course and they did that in too. Birkdale is no better than a Doak 7 in my book.  It is incredible how different Lytham, Hoyake and Birkdale are. 

Ciao

[Pete Lavallee]

I played Birkdale, Lytham and Hoylake just a few years ago and agree that Birkdale is at the bottom of that list. It's a great experience, catering to visitors willing to pay the high green fees, with excellent conditions and I particularly enjoyed the Clubhouse where you get a fantastic view of the 18th green from the Lounge. But in the end great golf holes are built on great land forms and Birkdale has precious few between the dunes. The 1st and 12th are memorable as are the 17th and 18th but the rest of the holes just seem to blur together; as others said playing between the dunes is not really a plus unless you are a Tour pro trying to cash a check!

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Sean,
Not problems with what you say apart from a couple of things that people often overlook that IMO should qualify  as quirk.
The tee shots on #9/10 are both very quirky, and certainly not something any modern architect would build into his course design.
I feel sure that a modern architect would avoid the terrain on #9 as much as possible.
Just a thought

[Jon Wiggett]

Again I am surprised at the lack of love/liking for Birkdale on here and I often think it is because the pros like the most along with Muirfield which gets a similar reception.


To me it has the best opening hole in major golf and a superb first four. Seven is a better hole from the old tee but the stretch 8 though 12 are top draw. Finally, the last four holes are perfectly balance to offer up birdies or bogies on each hole. The holes I have left out though not as good are all solid holes and would be at home on any course.


In the end Birkdale asks the player to hit every shape of shot and have a very good short game and if there is a weakness it would be the lack of central hazards which only really occur on 2, 15 and 18.


Sean,


whilst Formby is an excellent course I prefer the Ladies to the main from a GCA point of view. For me it does not have the consistent quality of holes that Birkdale does but Formby does have that certain atmosphere about it similar to Alwoodley which you know it when it is there but it is impossible to say exactly what it is.


On a side note. If you have not had a look at the old abandoned holes before then make sure you do next time you are there as they must have made the course even better.


Jon

[Adam Lawrence]

Michael -- you are, of course, perfectly at liberty to love Birkdale as much as you like. But your comparison to Woking and NZ is thoroughly screwy -- no-one is suggesting that either of those courses is the best in the UK, as many people will claim re. Birkdale.


Is Birkdale natural or is it the product of substantial earthmoving? At this distance that is almost impossible to answer, but the simple fact is that the course lacks the rumple that makes the greatest links great. That is why the pros love it, but it's also why those of us with a more refined sense of quality feel that it lacks. Sean is right about the 17th -- despite all the whining, it was the best green out there (I said this once to Martin Hawtree, who laughed). You're right about the first -- great hole. But it doesn't get any better.

[Sean_A]

Adam

What makes the 1st hole great is the odd kink halfway dwon the fairway which sort of creates a double dogleg. 

Jon

For me Formby has far greater variety than Birkdale and the Ladies.  While I like the Ladies, the several short 4s aren't distinctive enough as a set to compare with the big course.  But that doesn't really matter because the two shouldn't be compared...that isn't the point.  Anyhow, Birkdale isn't even a consideration for my Happy 100...Formby and Ladies make it 

Ciao

[Dean Stokes]

Interesting views. In the past year speaking to several good players and caddies I’ve not heard anything but impressive remarks about both Birkdale and Muirfield.
Oh except that Birkdale ruined 17 green and now it’s the worst green on the course!

[Duncan Cheslett]

At less than an hour from my home Birkdale has always been on my bucket list.


Reading the comments here and factoring in the eye-watering green fee I suspect that it will remain there.


I have Wallasey, Formby and Silloth within easy reach. I don't need "better" that that!

[David Davis]

At less than an hour from my home Birkdale has always been on my bucket list.


Reading the comments here and factoring in the eye-watering green fee I suspect that it will remain there.


I have Wallasey, Formby and Silloth within easy reach. I don't need "better" that that!

Duncan,


Green fee is one thing and could understandably be a deterrent however, don't let a few opinionated people discourage your visit and finding out for yourself. You just might fall into the other camp and believe it's the #1 course in England. I know a ton of people that believe that to be the case and you could be missing out on the experience of a lifetime. Especially with it being so close!

[Ben Stephens]

Duncan,


Go to Birkdale and play it a least once. It is like marmite (vegemite if your an Aussie) on this site.


I think like Carnoustie is a very strong and very fair golf course with very few weak holes playing in different directions and no hole feels the same.


There are some cracking golf holes there with great green sites. The fairway are quite flattish with a few subtle slopes which does not punish some golfers if they are accurate and if in the rough or dunes the lie/shot then becomes more difficult.


Others may rubbish Sandwich because it is deemed unfair and it punishes the good shot which it does on a few holes especially the 17th if you hit it straight off the tee to a camber fairway.


There is no thing such as a perfect golf course there are so many variations that some like and don't like. Same with buildings you can't please everyone.


My OPEN courses in England ranking would be


1. Sandwich (my affection for it has grown the more I play it)
2. Royal Birkdale
3. Deal (not on current rota)
4. Royal Lytham [size=78%] [/size]
5. Hoylake


If Princes was included in its current form Shore + Dunes I would put it ahead of Hoylake.


For me Hoylake is the most disappointing and boring Open course I have played the majority of the holes are flat and featureless. This is my opinion of it which others may dispute.


 

[David McIntosh]

Duncan,

Echoing Ben and David’s comments - in an ideal world (where green fees weren’t an issue) you should try to play Birkdale to make up your own mind on its merits or, possibly, lack thereof. It’s one of the most expensive courses on the Open rota so completely understand where you’re coming from on the green fee.

I played it for the first time in April and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it was. Admittedly I didn’t have sky high expectations after reading a lot of the views on the site but I had a great day there. Birkdale doesn’t have much quirk but that doesn’t detract from the fact that it’s a fantastic course with no real weak points.

If I was to rank the four English Open courses I’ve played it would be:
1. Sandwich
2. Birkdale
3. Deal
4. Lytham

Sandwich would be my clear first choice with Lytham a distant fourth. I could easily make an argument for Deal taking second spot too as I found it a more enjoyable course to play than Birkdale.

Haven’t played Hoylake or Princes yet but hope to remedy that in the next few years. Really looking forward to Hoylake now after your glowing endorsement Ben 

[Duncan Cheslett]

All,


I'm penciling in a visit to Birkdale and most probably Formby for my 60th birthday in June 2020.


You are quite right - it is a course I need to play at least once in my life.


Anyone fancy joining me?

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