Discuss: PGA Tour Players Are Spoiled Babies

[David Cronheim]

I'm not one for beating a dead horse, but as articles like this one continue to trickle out, my only impression is that the modern professional has become so obsessed with a different game than the one played by the masses that anything besides a standard PGA Tour setup is immediately labeled as "unfair." They might as well hold the US Open on Trackman. Otherwise, how will the "best" player be assured of winning?!


What I saw on Saturday at Shinnecock was a golf course that was playing very, very hard in windy conditions. What I didn't see was what the media seems to have adopted without real discussion, namely, that good shots were not being rewarded. Did the USGA need to set it up THAT hard to protect par? Probably not and, as other have pointed out, that probably didn't show off the course at its architectural best. However, several of the shots replayed ad nauseum as evidence of an "unfair" setup simply were poor course management. 


For example, take the frequently replayed clips of #15. Stenson's play was absymal - he hit it in the rough, chased it from the wrong angle into the downslope of a bunker, short-sided, downwind and then everyone cries it's unfair he couldn't hold the green? In the same group, Rose hits the fairway, hits the green from the proper angle, drains a 15' birdie putt. Same could be said for #18 - hitting the ball above the hole was an absolutely no-no. It wasn't as if the players didn't know that. Those are execution errors: poor course management leading to extremely difficult recovery shots. The average player seems to accept that one poor shot can lead to a position from which an excellent recovery is nearly impossible. Pros seem to view every shot as if it requires them to be able to hit it stiff. If not - UNFAIR!

Augusta National seems to be immune from this type of whining out of fear of offending the club, but imagine if a US Open featured a hole like 15 where players were spinning wedges back into the water (as Sergio did 5x) or where it was easy to chip into a pond. The same could be said for shots at 11, 12 or unstoppable chips on 16. The difference? At Augusta, the "patrons gasp" but, as anyone who listened to the broadcast can attest, at the US Open bad shots can evoke laughter. For what it's worth, the fans certainly weren't turned off by the course setup as the TV ratings were the second-best third round of the U.S. Open since 2013 (3.7, 5.4M).


Deep down, this generation of pros thinks they're so good that they aren't willing to submit to a difficult test. The snowflakes hate being laughed at...

[jeffwarne]

David,
You make some valid points.
and many pros, like other highly compensated celebrities and athletes are spoiled, though I'd put golfers that pay their own way a bit lower on the list than other athletes.
My problem is that the greens sucked-simply sucked like plinko on ThursdayI was there 7 hours Thursday and the longest putt I saw made was 6 feet-including TV.(excluding highlights)and again on Saturday.
Difficult is good-stupid is not.and seeing a ball slow, bump, then accelerate due to lost grass became a bit silly Saturday afternoon-favoring the players who played the worst the first 2 days-This was not a weather change/draw issue, but a stupid agronomy/ego failed set up issue.
The USGA admitted as much citing "unexpected winds"
Imagine that-the wind blowing in a seaside resort town on an Island 100 miles out to sea.What were the setup people who lived here the past 2 years smoking not to know it blows here?

The wind blew no more than any other summer weekend and far less than it does in the spring or fall. It even rained Wed and Friday.
The USGA had vowed not to do it again-but they did-rendering it inexcuseable and seriously damaged their credibility in the eyes of many of their even ardent supportors.
Zach Johnson is an Open champ and was pretty vocal.


Shinnecock is a difficult venue and in fairness I didn't enjoy the overcompensated softness Sunday either.The near 62 was evidence of overcorrection.
Why not just let it play fast and firm with the grass alive as it always does week in and week out and use good pins as the challenge rather than artificially high, inconsistent speed from dying turf.


I'd say Mike Davis needs to go as the story has too often been him, and not the course or players.


That said, it was compelling to watch-I'm just glad Koepka won which proves set up means exactly nothing as it was the exactly the opposite as last year's presentation.

[David Cronheim]

Jeff,


I think whether the USGA apologized or not is irrelevant. My point was exactly that they bowed to complaints from the players, but shouldn't have. Nothing I witnessed on Saturday struck me as "unfair." Needlessly difficult? Perhaps.


My point is exactly that to the extent the setup becomes an issue every year, it's one generated by the players with the goal of trying to force an easier set-up because they prefer it.


DBC

[David_Tepper]

David C. -

Players have been complaining about US Open set-ups for decades, often with good reason. Hogan complained, Nicklaus complained.

What, in your mind, is the dividing line between "needlessly difficult" and "unfair?"

The question is not so much whether good shots were rewarded, but rather how badly marginal or poor shots were punished. Based on what I saw, "the punishments" did not fit "the crimes."

As far as the difference between the game the pros and "the masses" play, that difference is HUGE.

DT

[Mike Sweeney]

If I was Mike Davis, I would put out the following press release today:


"We are no longer trying to "protect par" at The US Open. We are striving for +10 and we are hiring Lt. Col Bill Quigley, USMC (ret) as our setup guy for Pebble Beach 2019. Good Luck."

The Quigley - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUFIo2Htg48

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,


I think whether the USGA apologized or not is irrelevant. My point was exactly that they bowed to complaints from the players, but shouldn't have. Nothing I witnessed on Saturday struck me as "unfair." Needlessly difficult? Perhaps.


My point is exactly that to the extent the setup becomes an issue every year, it's one generated by the players with the goal of trying to force an easier set-up because they prefer it.


DBC

David C,
You may be onto something re the players as Mike Davis was applauded initially for reducing rough around greens, "progressive rough" etc. (I kind've draw the line at applauding a ladies tees option as a "driveable par 4")
But I don't think for a minute he doesn't crave the attention based on how often he puts himself in the middle of everything ("staying in his lane" I was told)


I generally can't stand the word "fair" regarding setups as everyone has to negotiate the same course, and as you said certain shots have to be thought about/adjusted to and/or avoided-particularly where approaches are left.


But given the fact that on Saturday the BOTTOM half of the field (out first on greens that were checking out)AVERAGED 5 shots lower than the top half(on greens that HAD checked out), doesn't that situation strike you as unfair to those who had presumably played them selves into position only to be doomed by their afternoon tee time, then got no measure of revenge on Sunday when the greens were overlysoftened for everyone?


But if par remains what they want as a winning score, why not simply regulate equipment rather than kill grass?


Back in the 50's -80's when fairways were super tight and rough was super deep, at least you knew how to prepare for a US Open by driving it well, managing your game and wedging out of nasty fairway and greenside rough and putting well on firm fast greens.
Now I guess you put your metal spikes on, run up and down the wooden stairs for an hour and then go plinko putt up and down them.
Shinnecock deserves better.



and Mike, the last time I saw greens putt as poor as Shinnecock this year it was at the 2010 US Open at Pebble so there's precedent-but at least it wasn't till round 4.

[David Cronheim]

David C. -

Players have been complaining about US Open set-ups for decades, often with good reason. Hogan complained, Nicklaus complained.

What, in your mind, is the dividing line between "needlessly difficult" and "unfair?"

The question is not so much whether good shots were rewarded, but rather how badly marginal or poor shots were punished. Based on what I saw, "the punishments" did not fit "the crimes."

As far as the difference between the game the pros and "the masses" play, that difference is HUGE.

DT

Other than #7 in 2004, I've never seen anything that I thought was actually unfair.


I'd call needlessly difficult harder than it needs to be to differentiate good play from bad. This year I didn't see anything that was unfair, but the scoring average was arguably higher than it needed to be to do that job. A few up tees or easier pins would've yielded the same results without slowing down play.


Even though I think this setup was fair, I've never thought fairness to be a good yardstick for golf. "Sporting" as in a "sporting chance" (defined as being possible) seems a better measure.  To be clear, even on Saturday, there was no hole that didn't yield birdies or pars - those players that scored better executed better.


I think CB came as close to anyone when he opined:


"Many people preach equity in golf. Does any human receive equity in life? He has to take the bitter with the sweet, and as he forges through all the intricacies and inequalities which life presents, he proves his mettle. Equity has nothing to do with golf. If founded on eternal justice the game would be deadly dull to watch or play. The essence of the game is inequality. Take your medicine where you find it and don’t cry….If there were not more or less luck in the game it would not be worthy."


The thrust of my initial post was basically that the average tour pro would not agree with that statement. They demand equality of outcome without paying adequate consideration to the conditions giving rise to that "unfair" result (e.g. if it's hard to stop the ball from above the hole, don't hit it there).

[Matthew Petersen]

I agree with David Tepper in that it was always thus. Players complain about the US Open. Players complain. It's what they do. They have Twitter and a bigger, louder media environment that amplifies their complaints much more than in days past. Overreacting to it only encourages further bellyaching, like coddling a petulant toddler.

[David Cronheim]

Jeff,


Well said. To answer your short question - no I don't think it's unfair that the players who go out in the afternoon had a higher scoring average. The wind picked up and the course dried out. That's seaside golf for you. The course is prepped and put into play at the beginning of the day and it will always change. Sometimes it rains, sometimes it blows, sometimes the wind dies. [/size]Is it any more "unfair" than the last group of the field having 156 sets of footprints and spike marks to putt through? It's an outdoor sport.


My brother played in the Irish Am in 65 MPH winds that blew flagsticks out of the holes, but didn't stop play. As he walked in on 18, the sun came out and the wind dropped to 0. Unfair? No. Unlucky - you bet.


DBC

[jeffwarne]

I think CB came as close to anyone when he opined:


"Many people preach equity in golf. Does any human receive equity in life? He has to take the bitter with the sweet, and as he forges through all the intricacies and inequalities which life presents, he proves his mettle. Equity has nothing to do with golf. If founded on eternal justice the game would be deadly dull to watch or play. The essence of the game is inequality. Take your medicine where you find it and don’t cry….If there were not more or less luck in the game it would not be worthy."

I agree with you and CB.


Which is why the "set up" need to be deemphasized.
It conjures up preconceived targets for score.


If they used the tees they used for this Open, along with the roughlines they brought in last September (which I don't agree with but will concede based on historic US opens there being even narrower)
and simply played with annual Superintendant controlled Member -Guest green firmness and speed, you would've seen a fine US Championship-where HOW you played in all facets was rewarded -not WHEN you played.


To your point

Yes that's seaside golf-so therefore the they need to be more leery of "the edge" than on an inland course-especially after their self inflicted debacle in 2004 that they vowed not to repeat.

[Matthew Petersen]

I agree, David. I do think it's prudent that the setup anticipate the likely condition of the course in the afternoon as it dries out in the low humidity and the wind, however. That really seems to me in retrospect to be the main error the USGA made on Saturday. The had the setup right for Saturday morning, with good conditions and good challenging pins including a few that were right on the edge but OK given the conditions. But they didn't accurately account for how a handful (maybe even just two) of those hole locations would play at the end of the day.


I think it's madness to start calling for watering the greens midway through the day or other such proposals. Can we turn off the wind? Play in a dome? Conditions change and that's part of the game.


But even still the USGA was much less at fault than overdramatic statements from (really only a select few) players and a Twitter universe that blew it way out of proportion. I'm sorry, but Zach Johnson is the one who should really feel like an idiot. He walks off the course on Saturday saying, "They've lost the golf course," and on Sunday the course is green and frankly overly soft. So, not lost. At all.

[Brad Payne]

I like your comparison to the Masters as to why there are no complaints there.  No one would dare speak out against the green jackets at Augusta even if the course was unfair.  Unfortunately, the USGA is not immune to the same sort of criticism.  The players complain loudly as a result.  They ain't scared Mike Davis won't invite them back next year!

[Mark Fedeli]

Mark me down in the "PGA Tour Players Are Spoiled Babies" column. I'd love to hear which sport's players Jeff thinks act more like entitled whiners (the "unwritten rules of baseball" crew might be the second most insufferable).


That all said, with how the top professional golfers come up through the ranks, it's hard to blame them for their myopic views. Golf has been presented to them their entire lives, particularly in the USA, as a sport of paradise and perfection. Perfect equipment, perfect conditions, perfect clubhouses — heck, they ply their trade at the playgrounds of the 1%. And the media and the fans and the Tour itself do nothing to provide a differing view of the soul of the sport.

But more and more people are starting to see the limits of that and how boring it is. We all know that dealing with the imperfections of nature and overcoming the inherent adversity is what makes golf so special. We just need to keep fighting our good fight and hope it continues to trickle into the mainstream.

[Sean_A]

...the "set up" need to be deemphasized. It conjures up preconceived targets for score.

+1

Fairness isn't the issue...never is. The issue is trying to protect par.  That is no way to set up a course.

Ciao

[Peter Pallotta]

Whatever else they may be, I think the best & brightest of the
tour pros are very astute architectural observers -- and, while they don't necessarily use the same language/terms that we do around here, I'd venture to say that their understanding and insight into top-flight golf course design & the strategic options it engenders is far deeper and more nuanced than most of ours. And almost to a man, the complaint from these tour pros was this: Shinnecock (unlike Erin Hills) is a truly *great* golf course -- but the USGA didn't let us play it.

[jeffwarne]

Mark,
 Ironcally I think we agree, though I'll take golfers over basketball, soccer or tennis players anyday.


I'm completely with you about perfect homognized courses and equipment.
You're right it is boring.
And it IS a good fight.


My frustration is that they DON'T take it to a real muni (they turned Bethpage into a manicured bluegrass mess-played there last week)
and they never lighten up on the fairway irrigation at Open sites-just the greens in search of speed.
I'd love to see them throw in a few back tees and show up at a muni and just play-I've said this for years.
Or show up at Shinny and just play,,
but instead they spend millions and years altering the setup and condition of an already great course rather than just playing it.


I'm all for nature and raw golf and less inputs-just played 4 days of it-humpy brown firm fast fairways littered with divots from all the collection areas-fantastic natural terrain for golf. We're on the same page.
One of the best events I play all year is held at a true $25 muni Shennecossett, and I'm priviledged to play weekly at some of the highest regarded courses in the country.

But NATURE and naturalness(they stored the removed fairway grass at a sod farm in New Jersey) did not create the conditions at Shinnecock.
An over contrived committee set up team with preconceived notions of score and difficulty created the "conditions" which weren't as good as one would find at a muni that uses 1% of the effort and inputs.


Just save all the effort and $$ and embrace the muni!
and let's bastardize the other 40 courses on Tour rather than Shinnecock, one of the few already raw iconic gems.

[jeffwarne]

Whatever else they may be, I think the best & brightest of the
tour pros are very astute architectural observers -- and, while they don't necessarily use the same language/terms that we do around here, I'd venture to say that their understanding and insight into top-flight golf course design & the strategic options it engenders is far deeper and more nuanced than most of ours. And almost to a man, the complaint from these tour pros was this: Shinnecock (unlike Erin Hills) is a truly *great* golf course -- but the USGA didn't let us play it.

Peter,
Good stuff.
I'd argue Erin Hills is pretty darn good, especially given what the professional game has evolved into.
The weather didn't cooperate at EH, but it's a worthy site for the unfortunate scale of the modern game, as is Shinnecock with the 2018 tees (no doubt new ones for 2026)


I get rantish about this stuff because so many marginal fans see the Majors and question golf and its sustainability.
I'm all for sustainability-but should't we be doing more with less, not LESS with more?
You want a higher score-bifurcate- but stop bastardizing the scale by ever lengthening and by extension holding these courses out as examples of how to get your course noticed and famous.
(I had a great discussion with Tony Jacklin-great mind- about this off air last week while taping and he referenced how bifurcation always existed with the small ball)

[John Kavanaugh]

The players are going to show up no matter the condition of the course. The problem lays with the members who accept such efforts. In that vein I'm part of the problem.

[jeffwarne]

The players are going to show up no matter the condition of the course. The problem lays with the members who accept such efforts. In that vein I'm part of the problem.

+1

[Mark Fedeli]

Ugh, Jeff, don't get me started on Bethpage. I play Black every weekend, it's my home course, and while I love it, and it's very hard to choose any other nearby course over it, goddamn if the set-up doesn't always make me want to cry. The fairways at Shinnecock during the Open were 12 yards wider than what they are for regular everyday play on Black.


What's most frustrating is how proud they seem to be of the fairway narrowing and the rough thickening and the excessive bunkering, as if the whole golf world isn't waking up and going in a different direction. Someone there is very asleep at the wheel.


Nothing on Black has been done to increase enjoyment, only to make it more challenging for pros. That's especially true on the new 18th, where they are bragging about how the fairway is now just a uniform 28 yard wide landing strip like all the other holes. Sorry, rant over.

[Kalen Braley]

The USGA to some extent is hell bent on self-inflicting these same wounds again and again.


Its beyond difficult to try to setup a venue where you can predict a winning score after 72 holes and 4 days of Lord knows what.  By continuing to set expectations with such an insane goal, they just set themselves up to fail year after year and do foolish stuff in that pursuit.


They should just show up, pound the flesh, take a few snaps, sit back with a Mai Tai... and let the $$$$ roll in....

[John Kavanaugh]

Mark,


When Bethpage hosts a tournament how much good is done for the local community through visitors and charity? Aren't you being a bit selfish whining about fairway widths and the like?

[jeffwarne]

Ugh, Jeff, don't get me started on Bethpage. I play Black every weekend, it's my home course, and while I love it, and it's very hard to choose any other nearby course over it, goddamn if the set-up doesn't always make me want to cry. The fairways at Shinnecock during the Open were 12 yards wider than what they are for regular everyday play on Black.


What's most frustrating is how proud they seem to be of the fairway narrowing and the rough thickening and the excessive bunkering, as if the whole golf world isn't waking up and going in a different direction. Someone there is very asleep at the wheel.


Nothing on Black has been done to increase enjoyment, only to make it more challenging for pros. That's especially true on the new 18th, where they are bragging about how the fairway is now just a uniform 28 yard wide landing strip like all the other holes. Sorry, rant over.

I could not have said that better.
That was the first time I had played it other than the State Open and once out of grind mode I noticed how bad the course has become.
Virtually unplayable and definitely out of touch with current and classic archtectural and maintenance trends.Every hole ends with a 60 yard forced carry over the same amoeba bluegrass complex.

[corey miller]

"Unwritten Rules" in baseball have nothing to do with players being spoiled but more to do with policing the game. 


Phil would not have acted in the manner he did if those rules existed, In fact, much of the petulance in other sports stems from no "unwritten rules" and no means in which to respond to actions of those that are not sporting.

[Kalen Braley]

Corey,


I think there would be plenty of people willing to see Tiger's Ex wielding a 9-iron in the parking lot for non-conforming players..


P.S.  I find the primary problem with "Unwritten rules" is the documentation side of things is very poor...