Who thinks a hooked approach on the Home hole at Shinnecock Hills ...

[Ran Morrissett]

… should end up on short grass, be it the 72nd hole of a major  or maybe your mate and you out on a fall day.

Such a shot would CERTAINLY end up on tightly mown grass at ANGC and St. Andrews and Pinehurst but none of those courses are bathed in tall fescue either.

I say: Thumbs Down.

The short grass infatuation has gone too far and equally important, is unnatural in certain situations (think behind the 10th green at Shinnecock Hills as another example that the original architect never envisaged).

This week was a triumph for Erin Hills and its presentation. The same stallion won at both. Why? Because he played the best. The nauseous media coverage on Thursday and Friday of fawning over the set-up of Shinnecock Hills at the expense of Erin Hills disappeared over the weekend - and rightly so.

Erin Hills (where my brother John works) enjoyed a flexible set-up that could have covered any number of weather events that alas, never arouse. Mike Davis & team should have been praised for it, in part because they got the balance correct between short grass and native. Instead, the USGA was crucified for that set-up in the following weeks.

What will the pundits say this week? I doubt they will get the narrative right, again.

Best,

[Blake Conant]

Brooks hooked approach on 18 being saved by the grandstands wasn't covered nearly enough.  Maybe Joe Buck was tired and didn't want to create another controversy, but saving 5 from another 20-30 yards left in what would've been padded down rough would've been far more difficult than from the short grass where he ended up.  Golf is way down on the list of priorities when it comes to grandstand placement these days.  I'm thinking of a tournament last year where guys were aiming at the grandstand on a par 5 because the drop zone was a pretty easy up and down for 4. 


As for the short grass, when the grassing line changes right at the toe of a slope always seems a bit weird to me.  Left of 11 and back of 1 immediately come to mind.  10 also seemed weird, as did left of 18. 

[Jaeger Kovich]

Im pretty sure Brooks said in his interview that he knew missing left was okay. I definitely wasn't thinking it would be an okay miss when the shot tracker showed a serious double cross on the 18th fw.

[Jason Topp]

Short grass may have gone too far but much more concerning to me is that a course with brilliantly sloped greens is nearly impractical to use because speeds are ramped up to the point that the course gets silly with significant wind. Slow the greens down a couple of feet when playing the old classic courses and get more aggressive with pin positions if more difficulty is desired.
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[Peter Flory]

Short grass may have gone too far but much more concerning to me is that a course with brilliantly sloped greens is nearly impractical to use because speeds are ramped up to the point that the course gets silly with significant wind. Slow the greens down a couple of feet when playing the old classic courses and get more aggressive with pin positions if more difficulty is desired.

But that would cost too little.  And besides that, it is so logical that it could never happen. 

[Matthew Mollica]

Jason,


Billy Horschel was tweeting the same thing today. When he’s making more sense than the USGA, Davis & co have a problem.

[jeffwarne]

… should end up on short grass, be it the 72nd hole of a major  or maybe your mate and you out on a fall day.

Such a shot would CERTAINLY end up on tightly mown grass at ANGC and St. Andrews and Pinehurst but none of those courses are bathed in tall fescue either.

I say: Thumbs Down.

The short grass infatuation has gone too far and equally important, is unnatural in certain situations (think behind the 10th green at Shinnecock Hills as another example that the original architect never envisaged).

This week was a triumph for Erin Hills and its presentation. The same stallion won at both. Why? Because he played the best. The nauseous media coverage on Thursday and Friday of fawning over the set-up of Shinnecock Hills at the expense of Erin Hills disappeared over the weekend - and rightly so.

Erin Hills (where my brother John works) enjoyed a flexible set-up that could have covered any number of weather events that alas, never arouse. Mike Davis & team should have been praised for it, in part because they got the balance correct between short grass and native. Instead, the USGA was crucified for that set-up in the following weeks.

What will the pundits say this week? I doubt they will get the narrative right, again.

Best,

Thank God soneone finally said it.and a respected someone. ....!


Ive been saying it for years.Fads-theyre catchy.
Too much one dimensional.
A little rough can provide intrigue too and the idea that everyone is the same out of greenside rough is is a lie popularized by those that are mediocre with their wedge game.out of inconsistent rough


Variety is the spice of life

[Kyle Harris]

Getting a two-shot lead over the course of the previous 71 holes earned the reprieve. High-level tournament golf is different. Always will be.


Context, people.

[Anthony_Nysse]

… should end up on short grass, be it the 72nd hole of a major  or maybe your mate and you out on a fall day.

Such a shot would CERTAINLY end up on tightly mown grass at ANGC and St. Andrews and Pinehurst but none of those courses are bathed in tall fescue either.

I say: Thumbs Down.

The short grass infatuation has gone too far and equally important, is unnatural in certain situations (think behind the 10th green at Shinnecock Hills as another example that the original architect never envisaged).

This week was a triumph for Erin Hills and its presentation. The same stallion won at both. Why? Because he played the best. The nauseous media coverage on Thursday and Friday of fawning over the set-up of Shinnecock Hills at the expense of Erin Hills disappeared over the weekend - and rightly so.

Erin Hills (where my brother John works) enjoyed a flexible set-up that could have covered any number of weather events that alas, never arouse. Mike Davis & team should have been praised for it, in part because they got the balance correct between short grass and native. Instead, the USGA was crucified for that set-up in the following weeks.

What will the pundits say this week? I doubt they will get the narrative right, again.

Best,

I thought this exact same thing with Brooks when hitting his 3rd shot. Having normal, deep US OPEN rough would have been a much more difficult recovery and he certainly would have had to think more about going left.
  I love the introduction of more short cut on all the courses we talk about, especially the classic courses, but it doesn't challenge the pro game and it leaves me to wonder is some clubs/architects are "searching" for more shortcut where it was never really intended.

[Mike Sweeney]

Is Mike Davis actually Dr Evil with a conspiracy to propel Shinnecock over Erin Hills?

I don't think so!

It was a very compelling tournament to watch with the Evil Empire (USGA), historic clubs (Shinnecock), Brits yelling at all of of America (Poulter), and Long Island Goombas yelling into every open microphone on purpose. Ok that last one WAS annoying.

Once FOX (and NBC before that) paid whatever price they paid to the USGA, we moved from a golf competition to theater, and that is what they got!

If you want to watch real competition, go to a state competition, not the Professional Tours. That said,

1) Having long grass around #18 is probably impractical due to foot traffic. I don't want to see a shot off of matted grass. - Erin Hills had pretty short grass around 18 in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Z9BP6njoM

2) I agree with the short grass being too much behind #10. It was a one dimensional result and recovery.

3) Next year, the 18th hole will have a one dimensional hazard down the left side for the ENTIRE hole. Pebble Beach here we come!

I say vive le différence, Brooks Koepka is obviously more than a one dimensional player. That was clearly identified this tournament. I loved it.

[Jerry Kluger]

I know there is some very cool history at Pebble Beach but talk about course setup - they will take a course which the pros regularly play pretty well and somehow try to make it play totally different.  PB should be much drier but what will they do to it to make the scores much higher - probably narrow the fairways, grow the rough, make the greens really firm and speed them up by about 2 feet which on such small greens will leave them with 2 fair hole locations but they will still use other hole locations.  I think I understand where Ran is coming from with the short grass all over the course at Shinnecock but in the end Sunday was great to watch as Tommy Fleetwood showed that you can go low while Brooks showed how to win the US Open on two much different golf courses. 

[Thomas Dai]

A very valid point.
Interesting to note though that a similar shot played to the 18th/72nd hole in a few weeks time at The Open at Carnoustie will be OB while at next years US Open at Pebble Beach it will be in the ocean.
Atb

[Niall C]

I have to say I’m very surprised at the comment on here about short grass areas, particularly as I’ve been a bit of a lone wolf in the past in terms of criticising the use/need for excessively wide fairways.

Someone posted a quote from Koepka which suggested he went left as a bail-out. That suggests an element of strategy on his part, which surely his play in the previous holes earned him the right to use.

Going left probably meant an easy bogey (he had a reasonably par putt chance) whereas right possibly could have led to a heavier penalty.
We tend to criticise these guys for being one dimensional in their approach and their play but here we have them being allowed to use some strategy and we are criticising them having that opportunity. That seems odd to me.

Niall

[Michael George]

Ran:

Thanks for bringing this up.  If anyone else would have brought this up, many on the site would have criticized the thought.

However, I thought on many holes this weekend that the fairway areas around the greens were simply not natural looking.  Back to front greens with severe fall offs over the green are very hard to make look natural with fairway areas.  I like fairway areas, but they have to fit the hole. 

For instance, I think the short grass is perfect at Pinehurst #2 as the greens are bowls and the terrain is not terribly severe around them (other than left of #5). 

However, I thought in many places, it did not fit Shinnecock Hills.  Maybe the first time that I have seen something that C&C dd that I don't agree with.

[Carl Rogers]

Where is the "rub of the green" or "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" here in this discussion?
Will this same discussion occur concerning the set up by the R&A at Carnoustie?

[Niall C]

A very valid point.
Interesting to note though that a similar shot played to the 18th/72nd hole in a few weeks time at The Open at Carnoustie will be OB while at next years US Open at Pebble Beach it will be in the ocean.
Atb

Dai

If you think back to the 1999 Open at Carnoustie the bail-out was on the right and the trouble on the left which is the opposite of Shinnicock. If you recall van der Velde tried to do what Koepka did and aimed for the bail-out area, presumably on the basis he’d get a free drop if he went into/under the grandstand. He was just incredibly unlucky in that his ball hit a metal station and rebounded back the way some 50 or 60 yards.

Same idea, it just didn’t come off for van der Velde.

Niall

[Phil McDade]

Someone posted a quote from Koepka which suggested he went left as a bail-out. That suggests an element of strategy on his part, which surely his play in the previous holes earned him the right to use.


Niall

John Daly won the Open Championship by bailing out left for four straight days. Circa 1995 TOC.

[Rich Goodale]

As Bobby Jones would have said if he were still alive:


"There is golf and then there is competitive golf; and then there is professional "golf" where golf courses are mangled to accommodate 40,000+ paying spectators with huge anomalous bleachers and the architecture of the course and the Rules are thrown to the winds."


I for one would love to see a "Major" played on a great course course set up as for the "Scratch" golfer and allowing only 2-3,000 fully vetted spectators on the course.  Oops, I already have done so:  The Women's Ladies Open at Turnberry in 2015.....

[Kalen Braley]

Rich,


I like the idea of "Vetted" spectators.  Is there some unwritten rule that at NY tournies there must be X amount of hecklers placed around the course on every tee to yell out some idiotic thing after every tee shot?


FFS....

[Rich Goodale]

Rich,


I like the idea of "Vetted" spectators.  Is there some unwritten rule that at NY tournies there must be X amount of hecklers placed around the course on every tee to yell out some idiotic thing after every tee shot?


FFS....

Sorry Kalen, but I meant "rivetted" rather than "vetted."  Hot rivets should be shoved down the throats of the miscreants who chant "You da'Man!" or "Ole, Ole, Ole, Ole (etc. ad infinitum)."

[Phil McDade]

Rich,


I like the idea of "Vetted" spectators.  Is there some unwritten rule that at NY tournies there must be X amount of hecklers placed around the course on every tee to yell out some idiotic thing after every tee shot?


FFS....

It's an "Open," which suggests some level of openness to both the players and spectators attending. Any golf organization that decides to host championships in New York knows what it is getting in terms of "fans," and anyone surprised by the behavior of fans there (compared to, say, championships held in Minnesota ) is -- charmingly, to me -- naive.

[Alex Miller]

Back to the question at hand... I understand both sides of the argument and would just offer this as we often assume too much based on how easy the pros make some shots look. How good was Brooks's chip?


I say better than most here are assuming!


Short grass or not his shot from left of the green was no given 5. His saves on the back 9 and touch with the wedge all day may have our imaginations running a bit wild in terms of what was offered to him from left of the green. Chip it without enough loft or spin, that ball could go off the front. Similarly if he hits it too hard it trickles away and away... Putting is also not an easy ask from there going up hill through fairway and then DOWNHILL once it starts rolling on the green.


In any case, despite all the controversy I really enjoyed watch this year's US Open and think the course still shined through despite the USGA's questionable decision making.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Didn't I see a drop zone in the immediate vicinity of where his ball came to rest?

[Phil McDade]

Didn't I see a drop zone in the immediate vicinity of where his ball came to rest?

Yes.

[BHoover]

We need USGA leadership willing to speak truth to Mike Davis and the Tour pros. Ran needs to run!