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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #200 on: June 20, 2018, 10:36:18 PM »
Lou,


This wasn’t politics or rules understanding, this was entertainment...as in, the USGA (and US Open) is now in the manufactured entertainment business.
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #201 on: June 20, 2018, 10:38:59 PM »
Sean, tried to answer earlier but must have hit the wrong button.


My argument is simply that this is a Rule 1-2 issue, and not 14-5, or any other. From there, the hosting authority can determine whether or not it’s worth any penalty at all.


In my opinion, he would have made his point clearer by sticking to his guns and not showing up Sunday...
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #202 on: June 20, 2018, 10:40:23 PM »
Lou, I've shared my thoughts and I'll leave it at that. I can't imagine any, and I mean ANY, rules official feeling good about this. As someone else mentioned, what if Phil had been quicker and "tapped in" for an 8. Would that sit well with anyone? Should you be rewarded for breaking the rules quicker?


But I could certainly be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, wouldn't even be the first time today...
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #203 on: June 21, 2018, 04:04:44 AM »
Quote from: Jim Sullivan on June 20, 2018, 10:38:59 PM
Sean, tried to answer earlier but must have hit the wrong button.


My argument is simply that this is a Rule 1-2 issue, and not 14-5, or any other. From there, the hosting authority can determine whether or not it’s worth any penalty at all.


In my opinion, he would have made his point clearer by sticking to his guns and not showing up Sunday...


Your conclusion is perplexing, but you gotta a right....


Ciao
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New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #204 on: June 21, 2018, 06:26:19 AM »
Quote from: Erik J. Barzeski on June 20, 2018, 10:23:45 PM

David Fay thought it warranted a DQ.


I heard that as well. So what was the difference with John Daly at Pinehurst? Was DF pro-DQ then but got outvoted?
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #205 on: June 21, 2018, 08:02:51 AM »
The poster who raised the question of it happened on the last hole to win sums it up.


The ultimate protest would have been to hsve declared it unplayable as it rolled one inch past the hole-the ultimate statement.
Can you pick up a rolling ball once you've declared it unplayable?


I thought he did a good job of making his point and further exposing the ineptness of the USGA was simply a bonus.


In future years I suggest teflon on the greens to further speed up the greens yet slow down the players
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 08:14:53 AM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #206 on: June 21, 2018, 08:06:44 AM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on June 21, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
The poster who raised the wiestion of it happened on the last hole win sums it up.


The ultimate protest would have been to hsve declared it unplayable as it rolled one inch past the hole-the ultimate statement.
Van you pick up a roll8ng ball onve you've declared it unplayable?


Ithought he did a good job of making his point and further ecposibg the ineptness of the USGA eas simply a bonus.


Please don't text and drive.
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #207 on: June 21, 2018, 08:10:34 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on June 21, 2018, 08:06:44 AM
Quote from: jeffwarne on June 21, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
The poster who raised the wiestion of it happened on the last hole win sums it up.


The ultimate protest would have been to hsve declared it unplayable as it rolled one inch past the hole-the ultimate statement.
Van you pick up a roll8ng ball onve you've declared it unplayable?


Ithought he did a good job of making his point and further ecposibg the ineptness of the USGA eas simply a bonus.


Please don't text and drive.


Sad that I'm out of reach of one of my 20 pairs of readers...


Ben Cowan's new ghost writer?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 09:58:13 AM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #208 on: June 21, 2018, 10:36:54 AM »
Jeff,


It should not be lost on this thread that Ben was DQ'd from this site. Hitting the send button, given the correction features of modern devices, on a post of gibberish is not all that different than running after a moving ball and striking it back at the hole.
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #209 on: June 21, 2018, 10:48:04 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on June 21, 2018, 10:36:54 AM
Jeff,


It should not be lost on this thread that Ben was DQ'd from this site. Hitting the send button, given the correction features of modern devices, on a post of gibberish is not all that different than running after a moving ball and striking it back at the hole.


Not as funny anyway.
Who knew this was a no gibberish zone...
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #210 on: June 21, 2018, 10:48:36 AM »
I didn't know Ben was kicked off, but assume it was for repeated refusal to speak English...


Jeff's just old...can't get kicked off for being old...
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #211 on: June 21, 2018, 10:53:50 AM »
Quote from: Jim Sullivan on June 21, 2018, 10:48:36 AM



Jeff's just old...can't get kicked off for being old...


+1
Especially lately and gaining momentum
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 11:07:30 AM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #212 on: June 21, 2018, 10:59:54 AM »
Jeff,


For the sake of argument we can agree that your post was marred from a lack of accessible reading glasses. That being so, and you being a player and teacher of noticeable skill, do you believe an older player should use vision correction while playing? Do you?
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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #213 on: June 21, 2018, 11:01:50 AM »
Can't help but wonder: Would Phil's actions have been different had he been the leader?
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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #214 on: June 21, 2018, 11:09:07 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on June 21, 2018, 10:59:54 AM
Jeff,


For the sake of argument we can agree that your post was marred from a lack of accessible reading glasses. That being so, and you being a player and teacher of noticeable skill, do you believe an older player should use vision correction while playing? Do you?


Distance good-lazer surgery 1999.
Reading-not so much.
Lots if body corrections currently needed
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #215 on: June 21, 2018, 11:10:17 AM »
Quote from: Michael H on June 21, 2018, 11:01:50 AM
Can't help but wonder: Would Phil's actions have been different had he been the leader?


If he was leading he would not have had a similar mental breakdown. What Phil did plays into the hands of the discussion of mental illness that is long overdue. That being said I thought Anthony Bourdain was in the lead.
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #216 on: June 21, 2018, 11:11:02 AM »
Can you get kicked out of a soccer game for an intentional hand ball?
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Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #217 on: June 21, 2018, 11:12:49 AM »
Quote from: Jim Sullivan on June 21, 2018, 11:11:02 AM
Can you get kicked out of a soccer game for an intentional hand ball?


Sure -- happens all the time. I think it has happened in this World Cup.
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JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #218 on: June 21, 2018, 11:15:14 AM »

Quote from: Jim Sullivan on June 21, 2018, 11:11:02 AM


Can you get kicked out of a soccer game for an intentional hand ball?




Diego Maradona says no.
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #219 on: June 21, 2018, 11:28:57 AM »
Quote from: Michael H on June 21, 2018, 11:01:50 AM
Can't help but wonder: Would Phil's actions have been different had he been the leader?


Yes-an unplayable would've been the choice if in contention- rather than an FU USGA move-which I actually applaud.
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #220 on: June 21, 2018, 11:34:18 AM »
Please, an unplayable is also an insane choice given Phil's short game. If Phil was in the lead he would have let the ball come to rest and then played from there.
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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #221 on: June 21, 2018, 11:51:19 AM »
To me at least, the "issue" of which rule should apply to what Mickelson did is mildly interesting, and nothing more.  I think the point of the confusion over which rule applies comes out of the fact that the Rules don't really contemplate situations like this, so that neither applies perfectly.  The Rules are meant to cover situations that arise in the more-or-less "normal" play of the game, not an entitled asshat having a nervous breakdown/pity party at the US Open, and then lying about it on national TV.

What IS interesting to me is the reveal of Mickelson telling fans who had a problem with what he did to "toughen up".  This a guy who gets to play golf for a living telling everybody else to toughen up?  There is a part of my anatomy upon which he may plant his lips, now and forever.  The last thing in the world I need is somebody telling me to toughen up; I'll swap problems with him ANY day, and that's without even knowing all of his.

I've never understood the guy, but there were a lot of times that I admired how he handled adversity.  No more.  I felt bad for him missing out on the career slam with six seconds in the US Open, but no more. 

I'm going to go one step farther and just say that I hope the guy never wins another golf tournament.  So that he has to, you know, "toughen up".
Jeez...
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"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #222 on: June 21, 2018, 11:52:32 AM »
I know you guys don't want to go to other sports.  Please don't say you wanna go there.


Pretty much every other sport is full of examples of players intentionally breaking the rules with little consequence.  I avoided bringing this up days ago because I thought I would get the "Golf is a sport of honor, yada, yada and we hold players to a higher standard"


But you name it, baseball, football, basketball, hockey, etc...guys break the rules on purpose all the time and it rarely results in a DQ or being removed from the game.


P.S.  Barney, Whats with the attacks on Jeff...he's good people dude!
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #223 on: June 21, 2018, 11:59:13 AM »
Kalen,


I'm not attacking Jeff. I was only concerned about him texting a driving.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Phil should be DQ!
« Reply #224 on: June 21, 2018, 12:01:33 PM »
Quote from: A.G._Crockett on June 21, 2018, 11:51:19 AM


The last thing in the world I need is somebody telling me to toughen up; I'll swap problems with him ANY day, and that's without even knowing all of his.




Seriously? Can you imagine suffering through arthritis while hitting the ball 340? Would you really want that?


https://www.webmd.com/arthritis/psoriatic-arthritis/news/20100811/pro-golfer-phil-mickelson-treated-for-psoriatic-arthritis#1
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