Time to get back to architecture!

[Bill Shamleffer]

I am sorry! 
(7/3/2018)

After watching Phil interviewed by Curtis Strange, I think he should be DQ by the USGA!


He will not be DQ; and I believe he only will not be DQ because of his status.  I believe a lesser player would be DQ.


I do not believe the concept of a 2 stroke penalty is supposed to be to allow a player to decided to intentionally violate a rule, because that player elected to accept the resulting 2 stroke penalty.


To further add to how disturbing is this situation, if Phil elected to violate the rule of hitting a moving ball, knowing it was a 2 stroke penalty, why did the USGA have to inform Phil later in the round that he was being assessed a 2 stroke penalty?  How come Phil did not immediately make clear that he was accepting a 2 stroke penalty?


If the USGA had not already declared that they were imposing a 2 stroke penalty, and had waited to hear from Phil, and if Phil had told them what he told Curtis Strange on camera, perhaps the USGA would have then applied a DQ.  This might be an example of why it is best to wait to after the round and then discuss the matter with the contestant.  But now the USGA is sort of stuck with having already declared as only a 2 stroke penalty.


But I still think he should now be DQ.


Finally, Azinger made a joke of himself by accepting Phil's pathetic explanation.  He then admitted he likes Phil too much to overly criticize him, and to not accept Phil's explanation as genuine.  (I always took Zinger to by the type who honored Rule of Law.)


One of my first thoughts was - What would Davis Love have done.  Davis Love would NOT have purposely hit a moving ball; and if he did, by the end of the round he would have Withdrawn.

[Thomas Dai]

Didn’t John Daly do something similar at Pinehurst one year?
Arb

[Bill Shamleffer]

Yes, John Daly hit a moving ball at Pinehurst in 1999.

[John McCarthy]

I did not remember Daly doing that.  I have never seen it done at any level of competition. 


This would be akin to Woosnam attempting to hide the extra driver in a port-a-potty.

[John Crowley]

I did not remember Daly doing that.  I have never seen it done at any level of competition. 


This would be akin to Woosnam attempting to hide the extra driver in a port-a-potty.

The USGA may have applied the wrong rule to the Phil situation and DQ could have been the penalty.
What he did is totally contrary to the Spirit of the game.
He was unwilling to take his medicine after hitting a poor putt.


His non-apology was lame and disingenuous.


John your Wodehouse quote applies here.

[Doug Hodgson]

Yes he should definitely be disqualified.  There should never be any incentive to the player to commit a rules infraction.  That's why the DQ provision exists.  His interview explanation was outrageous and unsportsmanlike

[Bruce Katona]

Why?


Everyone loves it when Jose, Pep, Wenger, Nick Saban or any baseball manager let’s their displeasure of the call or conditions known. Thats what Phil did and he took the penalty.

[John Crowley]

 Rule 1-2 allows DQ for serious breach.
Rule 19-2 does not apply. PM hit be ball with Intent!
Rule 33-7 DQ for a serious breach of etiquette.

[MClutterbuck]

Initially I would have applied a DQ. Upon careful review, 2 strokes is appropriate.


2 strokes is the penalty for violation of Rule 1-2.


DQ in this situation can happen is it is a serious breach, defined as an action that allowed the player to gain significant advantage.


His actions ended up him standing 8 14 feet from the hole, on the same line that he would have stood in 6, had he allowed the ball to stop outside the green and declared an unplayable. Therefore, he gained no significant advantage.


Therefore 2 strokes apply. Now, under 33-7 we might go to DQ, not sure I would have.

[John Nixon]

Why?


Everyone loves it when Jose, Pep, Wenger, Nick Saban or any baseball manager let’s their displeasure of the call or conditions known. Thats what Phil did and he took the penalty.

Would everyone love it if Saban interfered with the next play to express his displeasure?

[Bruce Katona]

How does one throw the challenge flag or talk to the 4 th official in golf ?


Statement made by someone who can handle the blow back


Good for him. Keep the blazers on their toes.

[Mark Pearce]

Why?


Everyone loves it when Jose, Pep, Wenger, Nick Saban or any baseball manager let’s their displeasure of the call or conditions known. Thats what Phil did and he took the penalty.

You're smart enough, surely, to understand that comparing the conduct of a manager to the conduct of a player is comparing apples and pears?  You also know this is golf, not football or baseball?

[Kalen Braley]

Are the rules not in place for the players to use to thier advantage as Phil also said in the post round interview?


Where was the supposed outrage when Spieth used the rules to his advantage in The Open last year to get a huge advantage after driving it in the shit. 


I don't see how this is any different...

[archie_struthers]

 


Rule addresses hitting a moving ball! I'm with Kalen🤓

[Ryan Coles]

Are the rules not in place for the players to use to thier advantage as Phil also said in the post round interview?


Where was the supposed outrage when Spieth used the rules to his advantage in The Open last year to get a huge advantage after driving it in the shit. 


I don't see how this is any different...

That’s the same weasel words as Mickelson.


Spieth did not make a calculated and deliberate effort to break the rules. Mickelson did.


A player who deliberately breaks the rules to gain advantage should be disqualified.

[Kalen Braley]

Ryan,


He didn't get off without penalty.  The ball was moving, he was assessed two strokes like the rule stipulates.  What am I missing?

[Ryan Coles]

You’re missing that it was a serious breach and the committee had the discretion to DQ him.


Can you recall a more deliberate example of cheating?

[Pete_Pittock]

Rule . Exerting Influence on Movement of Ball or Altering Physical Conditions
player must not (i) take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in play or (ii) alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.
Exceptions:   
1. An action expressly permitted or expressly prohibited by another Rule is subject to that other Rule, not Rule 1-2.
Rule 14-5. Playing Moving Ball
A player must not make a stroke at his ball while it is moving. Penalty for Breach of Rule 14-5 or 14-6:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes.

Rules are supposed to be enforced by the language, not your feelings. But you are certainly allowed to express them.


Rule 33-7. Disqualification Penalty; Committee Discretion
A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted.
Any penalty less than disqualification must not be waived or modified.

If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.
Decision 33-7/8   Meaning of "Serious Breach of Etiquette"   
Q.In Rule 33-7, what is meant by a "serious breach of etiquette"?
A.A serious breach of etiquette is behavior by a player that shows a significant disregard for an aspect of the Etiquette Section, such as intentionally distracting another player or intentionally offending someone.
Although a Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7 for a single act that it considers to be a serious breach of etiquette, in most cases it is recommended that such a penalty should be imposed only in the event of a further serious breach

[Ryan Coles]

What are your feelings Pete?

[Sean_A]

Of course Phil shouldn't be DQed because that is not what the rules called for, but that won't stop the weekly head hunters out there baying for blood.  I like that Phil took the piss and exposed some weakness in the rules (and I do think he thought his actions through prior to doing it...thinking the next damn time it comes up he was gonna pull the trigger).  I know rule heads will never buy it, but the rules as written are sometimes overly complicated and not fit for purpose. Its time for a complete overhaul rather than scratching around the edges.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

So I dug up a few posts after last years Open debacle to justify Spieths actions...

Seems Phil is being held to a different standard....and of course no one is mentioning that Phil was already long past winning the tournament, unlike Spieth...


"Bottom line--a brilliant use of the rules to help  himself.  Maybe more players will realize that knowing the rules can work as an advantage!"

"I see no problem, and if I was as smart as Speith I would have done the same thing. Rules help as well as hinder."

"Seems to me we regularly bemoan how few PGA Tour Pro's have a good knowledge of the rules or bother to read the "local rules" at any given tournament. Here is an instance where a pro actually knows the rules and the options they afford him. Why should he criticized for that?"

[James Brown]

John Daly did the same thing at Pinehurst in the Open and was assessed a 2 shot penalty. 

[Ryan Coles]

Of course Phil shouldn't be DQed because that is not what the rules called for, but that won't stop the weekly head hunters out there baying for blood.  I like that Phil took the piss and exposed some weakness in the rules (and I do think he thought his actions through prior to doing it...thinking the next damn time it comes up he was gonna pull the trigger).  I know rule heads will never buy it, but the rules as written are sometimes overly complicated and not fit for purpose. Its time for a complete overhaul rather than scratching around the edges.

Ciao

Sean


Sorry to see you condone cheating.


I also think lionising Mickelson as if he was trying to do some sort of self sacrifice for the greater good is a bit of a stretch.


Kalen


I’m sorry that you can’t seem to make the distinction between breaking the rules to your advantage and playing within them to your advantage. Perhaps it’s why they’re so complicated, clearly nothing can be left to a players sense of fair play.

[John McCarthy]

Would anyone here gamble on golf with a person who pulled this?


What would you say to a son or daughter who did this in a high school medal tournament?

[Kalen Braley]

Ryan,


I'm sorry you can't see that breaking a rule doesn't mean it results in a DQ..


He broke the rule, he paid his penalty, he took it.... the rules specifically address it.


There really is no dispute...