“The course is gone”!

[Dean Stokes]

I guess I’m maybe starting to question why the US Open needs Mike Davis to set the course up?
The event goes to courses that have some of the best superintendents in the business/world. These individuals know more about their course, greens, rough growth year after year and certainly understand golf.
Why aren’t THEY given the task of getting THEIR course in difficult conditions with fast but playable greens and perhaps let Mike set the pins so he gets his kicks! surely they can’t do a worse job!

[Bill Gayne]

This might not be popular on GCA.COM but this confirms for me that ANGC every April is the best golf course for major championship golf and it's been that for a long time.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mike Davis actually said " This was a tale of 2 courses- morning and afternoon" Afternoon winds were more than forecast. Didn't plan for that. Some hole locations were " borderline." The course will be watered overnight.


Chamblee just said that there was a 3 stroke differential from morning groups to afternoon. Also, that there was no prep for a worst case scenario.


Lerner just said " not a great day for the USGA."

[John McCarthy]

An embarrassing day for American Golf.


The governing body butchering a classic course.


The governing body failing to DQ a player who admits deliberately breaking the rules to gain advantage.


The governing body failing to control or eject drunken, abusive fans.


The future of the game in good hands?

Hear, hear!

[Joe Bausch]

So, how did this happen?


It's simply an overreaction to last year's low scores, and to what Jordan Spieth and Justin Thomas shot on a calm day last summer.  They narrowed the course considerably to be sure the scores wouldn't be too low.  I guess they succeeded.


But why?  It's more than just vanity ... they are overcompensating in fear that low scores might have moved the needle on the equipment debate.  See?  Nothing needs to be done!  If clubs would just set up their courses to be impossibly frustrating on an everyday basis, it would all be okay.


It's a shame that the great courses like Merion and Shinnecock have to suffer such indignities.  But that's what you get when you sign your life away to host a US Open.


PS. Don't blame Jon Jennings ... the superintendent does not call the shots at a major championship.

+6.02 x 10exp23.


TD speaks the truth.

[Cal Seifert]

Why not roll the ball back, play from 6800 or something around there, have the greens roll around 11/12 and play golf?  These guys overcomplicate this so much. Its a golf course for crying out loud, the shinnecock kids courses greens look better right now and theyre covered in concrete and spilled beer!

[jeffwarne]

Okay so the conditions and the course may be difficult and maybe those in charge aren’t doing their jobs as well as some would like but perspective in life is a strange beast.

And if these guys and their henchmen don’t want to be at Shinnecock today playing for or being paid loads of $$$$ well maybe they’d rather drive a truck or work night shifts in a factory for a living, or maybe live with limited food in a tent in a refugee camp or a village without running water, electricity or a sewerage system.
Atb

Id be 100% with you if a staff and team in the hundreds werent there for months and years.If this were a low cost muni ir a true links Id be perfectly fine.
But on a links we'd see running fairways and options to run up not stupid greens with ridiculous conditions and placements
But its a complete over manipulation and the critics have a point.


Whatever happened to golf.......?
Equipment gains AOK but wer're going to get you anyway with expensive existence justifying nonsense

[Tom_Doak]

Actually, Ray Floyd said he's the culprit in a magazine interview.


He played the course months ago and was appalled at the width of the fairways and immediately got in touch with the USGA to tell them it was unacceptable.

Well, that's true, but it's more a question of who do they listen to.


Shinnecock had a pretty good architect set the mowing lines, and the USGA decided that wasn't good enough for them.


PS.  Where's Fox's architecture analyst on this, btw?  I'm on my way overseas so I have not seen the coverage today.

[jeffwarne]

An embarrassing day for American Golf.


The governing body butchering a classic course.


The governing body failing to DQ a player who admits deliberately breaking the rules to gain advantage.


The governing body failing to control or eject drunken, abusive fans.


The future of the game in good hands?

Hear, hear!

Agreed on all counts.
A travesty

[Sean_A]

Okay so the conditions and the course may be difficult and maybe those in charge aren’t doing their jobs as well as some would like but perspective in life is a strange beast.

And if these guys and their henchmen don’t want to be at Shinnecock today playing for or being paid loads of $$$$ well maybe they’d rather drive a truck or work night shifts in a factory for a living, or maybe live with limited food in a tent in a refugee camp or a village without running water, electricity or a sewerage system.
Atb

Id be 100% with you if a staff and team in the hundreds werent there for months and years.If this were a low cost muni ir a true links Id be perfectly fine.
But on a links we'd see running fairways and options to run up not stupid greens with ridiculous conditions and placements
But its a complete over manipulation and the critics have a point.


Whatever happened to golf.......?
Equipment gains AOK but wer're going to get you anyway with expensive existence justifying nonsense

They certainly do over-think things.  What surprises me is a continual willingness to think nature can be outsmarted and its not like nature is really throwing up big problems.  The powers that be MUST be willing to allow for some silliness if it means scores won't be too low.  Otherwise this situation is VERY easy to avoid.  Hell, they had to suspend The Open because winds hit something like 20mph and the greens weren't anything like the speed of Shinnie's.


Ciao

[Ryan Coles]

The Open winds were gusting way higher than that and only one green (9th) was unplayable. Greens were about 10 on the stimp.


No comparison with today’s shit show. A nice sunny day with a breeze.

[Sean_A]

You miss the point  We all play in higher winds than TOC experienced without incident. The set up was the problem  not the weather. So in that regard the basic problem as at Shinnecock ..  avoidable problems.


Ciao

[Terry Lavin]

The setup punished the leaders and enabled Berger and Finau to be tied for the lead. Bad course setup?  Case closed.


Last year at Erin Hills, they were too soft. This year too hard. The pendulum approach repeats itself. In 2003, the USGA went for a gentler setup at Olympia and the course got pilloried in the press. In 2004 the USGA went over the top and nobody blamed the course. Shinny got another US Open and Olympia got the US Amateur.


History repeats itself.

[Pat Burke]

So, how did this happen?


It's simply an overreaction to last year's low scores, and to what Jordan Spieth and Justin Thomas shot on a calm day last summer.  They narrowed the course considerably to be sure the scores wouldn't be too low.  I guess they succeeded.


But why?  It's more than just vanity ... they are overcompensating in fear that low scores might have moved the needle on the equipment debate.  See?  Nothing needs to be done!  If clubs would just set up their courses to be impossibly frustrating on an everyday basis, it would all be okay.


It's a shame that the great courses like Merion and Shinnecock have to suffer such indignities.  But that's what you get when you sign your life away to host a US Open.


PS. Don't blame Jon Jennings ... the superintendent does not call the shots at a major championship.

Thank you for the ps
That's an important point imo

[Jon Wiggett]

Why aren’t THEY given the task of getting THEIR course in difficult conditions with fast but playable greens and perhaps let Mike set the pins so he gets his kicks! surely they can’t do a worse job!

#
Sorry Dean and no disrespect but there in lies the whole problem with the modern golf mentality. Shinny is playing as the conditions dictate with the problem being that the greens are TOO FAST. If they did what sensible greenkeepers around the world do and simply raised the height of cut as the conditions dictate it would be fine. As green should not be king for inland golf so speed should definitely not be king for links golf.

[Brock Lynch]

This happens way too often at the US Open. Everyone knows that its not the golf course, rather its the selfish decision makers from the USGA. If Mike Davis is trying to prove how smart he is, why does he continue to do the dumbest things at this tournament? This was a great tournament after two days and Mike Davis screwed it up! KISS

[Steve Okula]

Watching TV I caught a glimpse of somebody syringing the 18th green with a hose in the middle of the afternoon. The camera cut away real quick but that suggests a hint of desperation.

[Mark Chaplin]

I’d say there’s something wrong when tied T45 sits in the clubhouse and is joint leader at the end of the action.

[Dean Stokes]

Why aren’t THEY given the task of getting THEIR course in difficult conditions with fast but playable greens and perhaps let Mike set the pins so he gets his kicks! surely they can’t do a worse job!

#
Sorry Dean and no disrespect but there in lies the whole problem with the modern golf mentality. Shinny is playing as the conditions dictate with the problem being that the greens are TOO FAST. If they did what sensible greenkeepers around the world do and simply raised the height of cut as the conditions dictate it would be fine. As green should not be king for inland golf so speed should definitely not be king for links golf.

John I think we’re on the same page but maybe I worded it incorrectly. The Superintendent at Shinnecock knows his greens better than anyone and keeps a nice “grassed” playing surface all summer while maintaining speed. I’m 100% sure he could speed them up for the tour pros while maintaining “grass” on them unlike these surfaces the “EXPERT” Mike Davis has produced😀. He made one of the best courses in the world look and play awful yesterday which is a shame for the course staff and members at the club. In my opinion of course.

[Kyle Harris]

So, how did this happen?


It's simply an overreaction to last year's low scores, and to what Jordan Spieth and Justin Thomas shot on a calm day last summer.  They narrowed the course considerably to be sure the scores wouldn't be too low.  I guess they succeeded.


But why?  It's more than just vanity ... they are overcompensating in fear that low scores might have moved the needle on the equipment debate.  See?  Nothing needs to be done!  If clubs would just set up their courses to be impossibly frustrating on an everyday basis, it would all be okay.


It's a shame that the great courses like Merion and Shinnecock have to suffer such indignities.  But that's what you get when you sign your life away to host a US Open.


PS. Don't blame Jon Jennings ... the superintendent does not call the shots at a major championship.

+6.02 x 10exp23.


TD speaks the truth.

I knew we had a mole!

[Carl Rogers]

If I was the club President I may be having a word with Mr. Davis about now.

Would that be the club president who just sent Joe Buck a text affirming the club's satisfaction at how their course is playing?

Clearly, the club wants to continue to host events in the future.  They have to go with the party line.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Gil Hanse just agreed with Tom Doak about toning green speeds down without mentioning him:


"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak GCA Jan 2018

[Adam Clayman]

If the course at the edge, doesn't provide creative recovery options from a 360 perspective, perhaps the nature faker was really faking it?

[Jon Wiggett]

Why aren’t THEY given the task of getting THEIR course in difficult conditions with fast but playable greens and perhaps let Mike set the pins so he gets his kicks! surely they can’t do a worse job!

#
Sorry Dean and no disrespect but there in lies the whole problem with the modern golf mentality. Shinny is playing as the conditions dictate with the problem being that the greens are TOO FAST. If they did what sensible greenkeepers around the world do and simply raised the height of cut as the conditions dictate it would be fine. As green should not be king for inland golf so speed should definitely not be king for links golf.

John I think we’re on the same page but maybe I worded it incorrectly. The Superintendent at Shinnecock knows his greens better than anyone and keeps a nice “grassed” playing surface all summer while maintaining speed. I’m 100% sure he could speed them up for the tour pros while maintaining “grass” on them unlike these surfaces the “EXPERT” Mike Davis has produced😀. He made one of the best courses in the world look and play awful yesterday which is a shame for the course staff and members at the club. In my opinion of course.

Deahn,


yes, I think we are more or less of the same opinion. Bad pin positions and greens that do not allow the ball to stay on the slope around the pin regardless of the direction of approach.

[ward peyronnin]

I am very excited to watch the round today. We have a great leaderboard and good bunching. Plenty of bullshit stir the pot controversy and a perfect links day on a great very tough course( one of the hardest I have played). What more can you ask for?

Apparently perfect conditions so that everyone plays the exact same virtual golf course test: Tiger Woods 2018? These pros are whiners and pretty proud of themselves; an attitude I am seeing echoed on this and the Mickelson threat. These guys aren't guaranteed the some conditions for 14 hours in a day; storms blow in ; patters change happens all the time. If setup contributes to that so what; perhaps that is by design. The grass could have been longer I admit but i always read on here why does par matter? So what if par at the end of yesterday par was +3 instead of -6? So the USGA presents a set up that puts the equipment back in the bag and many of you bitch. You bitch about the USGA being too severe with the setup but not severe enough with a player who was inspired to use the rules to put him in a position he found preferable. Nothins right!

So keep it up and dig your self deeper into your self righteous bitter hole while a lot of us enjoy the golf like we usually don't get to see it today.