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Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
“The course is gone”!
« on: June 16, 2018, 04:15:01 PM »
Zach Johnson just bashed the set up and the sadness that the Nations open is ruined and now based on luck. Pure luck.
Does Mike Davis have any clue what he’s doing?
Butch Harmon, Curtis Strange and Rich Beem all agreed. The course set up for the weather is awful.
It is carnage out there. Shame!
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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2018, 04:46:18 PM »
Okay so the conditions and the course may be difficult and maybe those in charge aren’t doing their jobs as well as some would like but perspective in life is a strange beast.

And if these guys and their henchmen don’t want to be at Shinnecock today playing for or being paid loads of $$$$ well maybe they’d rather drive a truck or work night shifts in a factory for a living, or maybe live with limited food in a tent in a refugee camp or a village without running water, electricity or a sewerage system.
Atb
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 04:49:13 PM by Thomas Dai »
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Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2018, 04:51:42 PM »
Thomas Dai


1+
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Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 05:33:43 PM »
So far one player who is normally very respectful has publicly bashed the set up. Phil’s actions could be construed as a second player. All the commentators are saying it’s “over the edge”.
The players on the course are grinding away to win the US Open and yes approx $2M first place.
That doesn’t take away the fact that somebody who’s sole job is to set up the course for a fair and tough test failed.
Shinnecock is an amazing golf course all year long and he changes is for one week. Why?
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Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2018, 05:37:38 PM »
I'd be interested to hear what Jon Jennings has to say about this.


He is on record (on video with Matty G.) saying that there's no way 2004 happens again this year.


And BTW, Daniel Berger has moved up to T4 sitting in his hotel room.


K
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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

John Crowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2018, 05:43:25 PM »
As of right now Stenson and Rose are dealing well with the pressure and conditions.
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Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2018, 05:49:46 PM »
If I’m the President of Fox and I paid $1 billion for 10 years of broadcasts I’d be on the phone with Fred Ridley about now  to see if his team who runs one of the other majors is available next June to run a 2 nd Event, maybe even hosting.


One big time broadcast event to run a year and the blazers can’t even figure out their rules (2 years ago) and now they’re 2 for the last 2 on Shinnecock.


If I was the club President I may be having a word with Mr. Davis about now.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 06:27:40 PM by Bruce Katona »
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Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2018, 06:06:41 PM »
Quote from: Bruce Katona on June 16, 2018, 05:49:46 PM


If I was the club President I may be having a word with Mr. Davis about now.


Would that be the club president who just sent Joe Buck a text affirming the club's satisfaction at how their course is playing?
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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2018, 06:19:54 PM »
If anything's "gone" it's a number of players' course management skills.
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Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2018, 06:29:05 PM »
Just curious, has anyone on this thread played Shinnecock?


There is a reason that National Golf Links has been the favored course of GCA-in-Southampton for years. That includes me, because I stink. Jeez, I prefer the updated-Southampton GC these days (getting older) over Shinnecock.


That said, I agree with the President of Shinnecock. This is a course surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean, Shinnecock Bay, and Peconic Bay on sandy soil on a windy dry day. This has been the GREATEST almost-three days of US Open golf with three US Open champions - 2 power and one finesse - at the top of the leaderboard.


Absolutely awesome.


If you want -10, head to Congressional with Rory and his "Bomb and Gouge" game. I am actually thinking the USGA should have one day at Maidstone. That has some real wind :)
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"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2018, 06:31:06 PM »
Ken: of course the club president had to say that; what is he going to say with a day to go - the USGA ( who paid the club a pile of $$ after the last fiasco) did it again?
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Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 06:35:46 PM »
Quote from: Bruce Katona on June 16, 2018, 06:31:06 PM
Ken: of course the club president had to say that; what is he going to say with a day to go - the USGA ( who paid the club a pile of $$ after the last fiasco) did it again?


Don't be silly.


If they weren't happy, he didn't have to send Joe Buck a text during the telecast at all.


The fact that he did only tells me that he, and the club's members, are fed up with the pissant whiners who play professional golf.


K
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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Nate Oxman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2018, 06:40:44 PM »
Quote from: Dean Stokes on June 16, 2018, 05:33:43 PM
So far one player who is normally very respectful has publicly bashed the set up.



Pretty certain Zach Johnson bashed the setup at Merion in ‘13 too.
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Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2018, 06:44:24 PM »
Quote from: Nate Oxman on June 16, 2018, 06:40:44 PM
Quote from: Dean Stokes on June 16, 2018, 05:33:43 PM
So far one player who is normally very respectful has publicly bashed the set up.



Pretty certain Zach Johnson bashed the setup at Merion in ‘13 too.


The internet is brutal :)


https://www.golfchannel.com/article/golftalkcentral/zach-attack-disdain-usga-merion-manipulated/
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"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2018, 06:46:47 PM »
So, how did this happen?


It's simply an overreaction to last year's low scores, and to what Jordan Spieth and Justin Thomas shot on a calm day last summer.  They narrowed the course considerably to be sure the scores wouldn't be too low.  I guess they succeeded.


But why?  It's more than just vanity ... they are overcompensating in fear that low scores might have moved the needle on the equipment debate.  See?  Nothing needs to be done!  If clubs would just set up their courses to be impossibly frustrating on an everyday basis, it would all be okay.


It's a shame that the great courses like Merion and Shinnecock have to suffer such indignities.  But that's what you get when you sign your life away to host a US Open.


PS. Don't blame Jon Jennings ... the superintendent does not call the shots at a major championship.
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Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2018, 06:49:17 PM »
Tom:


BK did not say a thing about the super.


That poor guy & his crew have to resurrect his course beginning tomorrow night.
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Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2018, 06:49:33 PM »
So, is it a good thing, or a bad thing that they changed the rules about balls moving on the greens?
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Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2018, 06:53:18 PM »
An embarrassing day for American Golf.


The governing body butchering a classic course.


The governing body failing to DQ a player who admits deliberately breaking the rules to gain advantage.


The governing body failing to control or eject drunken, abusive fans.


The future of the game in good hands?
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Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2018, 07:22:11 PM »
The course I’m sure was playable first thing this morning but due to wind it became a farce. The two putts on 18 by Koepka and Rose prove that - when two of the best players in the world cannot get a 20 foot putt inside 10 feet then something is considerably wrong.


Henrik just said it best. “It’s not unfair because we all play the same course. It’s more ridiculous! But we know that’s what the USGA do year in year out”. Perfect.


As for the fans I think Butch Harmon covered that topic well in one sentence earlier😀I think some of them think it’s The Ryder Cup. I’d like to see them stay inside the grounds at Augusta or The Open!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 07:29:05 PM by Dean Stokes »
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Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2018, 07:32:36 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on June 16, 2018, 06:46:47 PM
So, how did this happen?



Actually, Ray Floyd said he's the culprit in a magazine interview.


He played the course months ago and was appalled at the width of the fairways and immediately got in touch with the USGA to tell them it was unacceptable.


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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2018, 07:35:27 PM »
Quote from: Bruce Katona on June 16, 2018, 06:49:17 PM
Tom:


BK did not say a thing about the super.


That poor guy & his crew have to resurrect his course beginning tomorrow night.


Not worried about the course being “gone”for the members and requiring some magical resurrection.  My round at Shinny in the fall of 2004 featured the finest turf conditions through the green that I’ve ever experienced.  The super obviously turned it around after the 2004 debacle in short order.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2018, 07:41:01 PM »
The fairways look fine....its just the greens setup that looks whack...
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Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2018, 07:42:38 PM »
The greens were borderline, but they weren't unfair. The hole locations were, specifically 15. 13 was damn close too

I actually love how 14 was essentially a short par 5 with the hole tucked up on the tiny shelf!
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"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2018, 07:48:45 PM »
Mike Davis just admitted the course setup was whack!


I don't think the players are making this stuff up!
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archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “The course is gone”!
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2018, 07:59:11 PM »
 ;D :-X




Perhaps it leveled the playing field a bit , bomb and gouge isn't the OPEN.  It's a week when they test the mettle both physically and mentally.


Someone will find a way tomorrow....play ball



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