Can quality golf really be played on bermuda?

[Joe Hancock]

I was in NC for 10 years, and thing I miss most about bermudagrass is the sound it made when you walk on it with metal spikes.....the spikes would "crunch" as they went through the tough, healthy rhizomes! It was almost as therapuetic as sniffing divots!

Joe

[H_Kruse]

Come south of the equator to Australia and you'll find some of the best conditioned bermuda grass (we call it couch grass) fairways in the world.....firm and fast.

When the world matchplay came to Metropolitan Golf Club in Melbourne Ernie Els was quoted as saying that it was the best conditioned course he had ever played.........the fairways in bermuda.

[Matt_Ward]

Just to clarify my initial point -- I enjoy bermuda WHEN it is cut as tight as possible and when it is firm without being waterlogged. Too many courses in the southeast pump out H20 and before you know it you have fairways that are saturated.

I just firmly believe that firm and fast conditions are the primary way for "quality golf" to be staged. I am also aware that certain sections of the country and times of the year will have a great influence on whether or not this happens.

Nonetheless, unless Bermuda is monitored quite closely you have a far greater likelihood for the kind of point-to-point carpet style golf that often robs the shotmaking dynamics that I believe are central to the playing of the game.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Matt we are with you on that point. Not everyone does a poor job though and it is not the grasses fault

[Mike_Young]

Matt,
"Nonetheless, unless Bermuda is monitored quite closely you have a far greater likelihood for the kind of point-to-point carpet style golf that often robs the shotmaking dynamics that I believe are central to the playing of the game"

This site often confuses me regarding golf.  IMHO you play what is on front of you.  Scratch players are going to score whether on bermuda, bent wet or dry.  And when they can have a choice between bump and run or carry they most often choose carry.  While one may argue firm and fast vs. the norm of the day, it just doesn't matter.
And by the way, I happen to agree with you re: conditions
But a lot of good players grew up on Bermuda such as Bobby Jones and most of the top 10 NCAA golf schools are bermuda areas.

[Matt_Ward]

Guys:

Read my point -- and don't take umbrage about where you live and the fact that Bermuda is the grass you must play on. The carpet effect of golf is not tied to the essence of the game -- you are simply playing point-to-point golf. Look, that type of thing also happens on oversaturated bent grass fairways that I see in the Northeast as well.

I've played the game long enough to adapt to the conditoins that exist wherever I play. My only point: at an optimum level the bounce of the ball needs to be integrated into the course and when people include strains of grasses that narrow that possibility to near zero then you have a game of golf that I believe is not at its maximum best. Nothing more -- nothing less.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Matt,
The problem I have with your comments about bermuda is I believe your issues with the grass are more related to management then grass type. I will be interested to hear your thoughts on the bermuda turf at TT. Its possible Lajitas will be overseeded while your there and as always a fresh overseed equates to wet, slow conditions. But, TT will be pure bermuda. Now, in fairness to the southeast supts., wet, hot, and humid conditions cause bermuda to grow rapidly. Combine that with a desire to have dark green checkerboard fwys and the result is puffy, slow turf. Out west it's a lot easier to keep things firm and fast because we are so much drier then the SE region. But, I can tell you this, if a course has bermuda fwys and the marching orders are to keep it as firm and fast as possible with no regard for color, bermuda is an awesome fwy turf anywhere it's warm enough to survive.

[Matt_Ward]

Don:

Agreed.

I've often spoken / written about the nature management plays in the operation of any golf facility -- most notably the inability to combat slow play. As I've said plenty of times previously -- the inmates don't run the asylum -- management does.

Don -- I have played on bermuda when it is what you have described -- extremely tight, firm and including a good element of bounce and unpredictability. I'll be very curious to see what happens when I visit TT, Lajitas and a few other courses I will be playing the Lone Star State next week.

The issue is that tooooooooo many times that happens to be the exception rather than the rule IMHO. Too many courses with bermuda and other similar grasses (ie. Zyosia and kikiyu, to name just two) can also be prepared to simply promote the "carpet" effect in golf -- also known as point-to-point golf. Like I said also -- this happens in the Northeast and other sections of the country where bent grass fairways are also overwatered to the point of balls simply plugging upon impact.

[Tom_Doak]

Absolutely, great golf can be played on bermuda fairways.  Pinehurst #2 and Royal Melbourne are two examples.

The issue is warm-season roughs.  Bermuda roughs are very difficult to play from and provide no color contrast at all.  Everything else that's been tried has its share of detractors.  They're going to kill me in Lubbock if the bahiagrass we put in the low areas doesn't work, but we had to try something different!

[A_Clay_Man]

Doak- The bahia was coming in fine. But then again I had never seen it before. It reminded me of kikuyu with the huge rhizomaticlojfjghethingys at the same time  Buffallo grass came to mind to. Since its off the high traffic areas I wouldn't worry to much but i did hit my ball in some, and never found it. That is why when we started talkin bout the course the long term maintenance question came up.

[Steve Lang]

 

Matt,

Enjoy TX next week, we've had beautiful weather in October so far in SE TX.. Dry windy 80°F, low sweat quotient..

As far as the WCC we have some firm and fast bermuda right now.. at the Player Course tonight I rolled some drives from my normal 240ish carry out to 275+..  and it was quite fun watching and hoping it would stay out of the rough.. but even that is ok if kept to 2 inches or so.. and you have a good 5-wood.

p.s. Adam, yes I'm keeping away from my spinout death move now!