[Neil_Crafter]

Hi all
Just wondering if anyone might recognise this hole? It appears to be an uphill hole, with a bunkered green, a wooded sandy hillside at the rear and a road to the left of the green. The photo may be from 1920s or early 1930s. Not sure of its location, UK or America?
As a further clue it very likely has a connection with Dr MacKenzie.
Appreciate any and all conjecture as to an ID for this hole.
Thanks in advance.
Neil

[Neil_Crafter]

Apologies but I haven't been able to upload the photo unfortunately.

[Neil_Crafter]

Perhaps I can email the photo to another forum member who can try posting it for me. Help please!

[Marty Bonnar]

Neil,
Send me it.
Cheers,
M.

[Marty Bonnar]

Neil's picture. I've posted it large to help detail:

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks Marty, appreciate the kind assistance. Hopefully someone will have an idea of where this hole is.

[Pat Burke]

That's a similar green to 8 at CPC

[Marty Bonnar]

What do folks think about the telegraph poles and buildings on the left? Not Very British, but maybe more US?

[Neil_Crafter]

My first thought was the US, any old photos exist of the 9th at Crystal Downs which is an uphill hole?

[Kalen Braley]

Why are you thinking its a Dr. MacK hole? 

[Neil_Crafter]

Kalen the hint is a certain signature on the card the photo is mounted to. But I don't want the focus to be on the signature which is why I haven't posted it.

[Pete_Pittock]

My first thought was the US, any old photos exist of the 9th at Crystal Downs which is an uphill hole?

Doubt that is Crystal Downs with that roadway close to the green.  don't remember that.


Neil, If that is the front of a postcard, is there a postmark?


Maybe something in the Bay area   Sharp Park or Delta View

[Neil_Crafter]

Pete, I agree, I have since found a photo of the 9th at Crystal Downs and it is definitely not that.
No it is not the front of a postcard, its larger than postcard size, the image is 22 x 16.5cm. And its firmly adhered to a large card backing, so I can't see the back of the photo unfortunately.
Wherever it is it appears to be quite sandy.

[Kalen Braley]

Neil,


Fair enough, good point.


Pete,


The Delta View myth has been busted, and from having played the course several times I can tell you that green isn't from there anyways.


But there are several MacKenizes in the greater bay area, and with all that sand it could be Sharp Park, but those trees are throwing me off, don't recall seeing many of those types in Pacifica...

[Greg Smith]

Is that the 18th at Sitwell Park, taken from a slightly funny front left low angle?

The blurriness of the photo is maybe flattening out all the severe contours of that famous green.   But from the general configuration of the surrounding land I'm thinking that's it.

The "old" pics of that green show the foreground bunker in much more Mackenzie style.  In the "new" pic you have (is it maybe circa 1950?) that bunker is roundish and you can't see the mounds and bunkers that are on the right hand side of the older pics.

[Adam Lawrence]

Is that the 18th at Sitwell Park, taken from a slightly funny front left low angle?

The blurriness of the photo is maybe flattening out all the severe contours of that famous green.   But from the general configuration of the surrounding land I'm thinking that's it.

The "old" pics of that green show the foreground bunker in much more Mackenzie style.  In the "new" pic you have (is it maybe circa 1950?) that bunker is roundish and you can't see the mounds and bunkers that are on the right hand side of the older pics.

ooh... Greg... a seductive answer and I can certainly see your point... Neil?

[Greg Smith]

I noticed a further supporting fact for it being Sitwell Park:

As I look at the flagstick, only top couple of feet is showing, at rather close range too.  That means that hole must be wayyyy down in a hollow behind that bunker.   That kind of wacko contour might be present at Sitwell Park.

Maybe if the photographer had gone 20 yards to his right, he'd be way down in a dip and that would have given us the "looking up a rollercoaster" feeling you get from the old black and white pics.

[Thomas Dai]

It doesn't look like the UK to me. The buildings and street furniture don't seem right nor does the road, nor the grass, nor the foliage. As Neil hasn't mentioned Aus/NZ in his opening post my first guess would be California......but if it's MacKenzie could it be Argentina or Uruguay?
atb

[Jon Wiggett]

It is definitely not Sitwell Park. There was no road on the left, the green is not extreme enough and the trees at the back are the wrong species. I am with Thomas in that it is not in the UK.

[Pete_Pittock]

Is that the 18th at Sitwell Park, taken from a slightly funny front left low angle?

The blurriness of the photo is maybe flattening out all the severe contours of that famous green.   But from the general configuration of the surrounding land I'm thinking that's it.

The "old" pics of that green show the foreground bunker in much more Mackenzie style.  In the "new" pic you have (is it maybe circa 1950?) that bunker is roundish and you can't see the mounds and bunkers that are on the right hand side of the older pics.

ooh... Greg... a seductive answer and I can certainly see your point... Neil?

I looked at images of the old Sitwell Park green photo.  Nope.  No road, bunkers different, background different, no structures.

[Neil_Crafter]

Greg, as Pete and Jon have said it is not Sitwell Park for the reasons they stated. Just for starters that is a clay site, whereas the photo is from a site that is clearly sandy, as you can see areas of exposed sand in the photograph. I like your thinking though.


Also, timing wise it must have been taken prior to January 1934 as MacKenzie was not able to sign anything after that date.


Thomas, the photo doesn't have an Australian feel to me. As for Argentina, its certainly not the Jockey Club with that elevation and sand. Possibly another course there that was photographed and sent to him later after completion.

[Niall C]

I'm with FBD, Dai and Jon in saying it's not a UK course. Other than that, I've no idea but looking forward to the super sleuths on here putting it all together to give us the answer.

Niall

[Niall C]

As a matter of interest, in what direction do folks think the hole is approached from ? It looks to me that the photo was taken from short right of the green or approx. 4 o'clock position depending on how you look at it.

Niall

[Joe McCormac]

Could that possibly be the 11th green at Pasatiempo?  Taken essentially from just on the green side of the "wash" area.  As referenced above, from about 4 o'clock.

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,


I like that guess...very plausible.  In looking at Google Maps, there is a street just up and to the left of the green, so the position of  that telephone pole makes sense.


P.S.  Thomas, What is street furniture?

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