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Matt Kardash

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World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« on: June 04, 2018, 04:54:41 PM »
This will give you more respect for the booming drives of yesteryear
Link
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Cal Seifert

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 05:06:12 PM »
I'd rather watch paid programming than the long drive show on golf channel


Do the people in the stands get paid to watch? or is it some community service hours for court?


On a serous note, did they bother mentioning what type of ball they used? 

Matt Kardash

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 06:12:05 PM »
Not that I know of. But still, I was surprised they could barely braek 280 yards off the tee. If the golf ball is in fact a modern golf ball, that means the modern driver has added roughly 70 to 100 yards to their drives. Insane.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Greg Clark

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 06:45:16 PM »
The balls were Volvik's which is the sponsor of the long drive championship.  While the modern ball certainly has increased distance off the tee, the modern driver is the bigger factor.

Cal Seifert

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 08:07:42 PM »
The balls were Volvik's which is the sponsor of the long drive championship.  While the modern ball certainly has increased distance off the tee, the modern driver is the bigger factor.


That certainly is different than what most around here think.  Ball rollback is discussed way more than driver technology rollback.

Garland Bayley

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2018, 12:37:45 AM »
The balls were Volvik's which is the sponsor of the long drive championship.  While the modern ball certainly has increased distance off the tee, the modern driver is the bigger factor.


That certainly is different than what most around here think.  Ball rollback is discussed way more than driver technology rollback.

Were the drivers and balls matched for optimization? Modern drivers are optimized to take advantage of all the ball performance. Perhaps they would be better off hitting the modern ball with a "two" wood. I.e. a driver with a higher loft than the persimmon drivers that had low lofts to prevent the wound balata balls from picking up too much back spin.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Thomas Dai

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2018, 04:27:13 AM »
Wooden heads with graphite, not steel, shafts. And with a 'hard' type ball I wonder how long the face inserts/heads will last? Also, the type of insert material used. The dispersion patterns might be interesting as well.
atb

Kalen Braley

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 11:49:41 AM »
Don't forget,


These are guys who regularly hit  400+ yard drives, and they were taking mighty cuts in the video.


So if they're only going 280ish, even the average tour player is only going maybe 235-240....

Seth Corr

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 01:13:42 PM »
Have to say I’m extremely surprised by this. Would have expected these guys to hit it much further, consistently over 300 but they actually quite rarely passed that number. I play persimmons and drive it around 215-225. Haven’t hit a modern driver in years but I didn’t hit them a whole lot farther when I did. My assumption has always been that most of the tech was in the ball and I still think it’s true but I’m wondering why they didn’t hit it further. Hitting persimmon requires some swing adjustment sure, and their launch conditions were far from optimized, no trackman present, etc. Also didn’t notice a ton of roll on that range which is really key for persimmon. Anyway, fun video, made me feel a little better about my driving prowess, which is always nice.

Peter Pallotta

Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 02:55:33 PM »
Seth - I like 'collecting' persimmon (nothing fancy, just the occasional goodwill 'find'), and over the years have gathered up some nice classics: e.g. Powerbilt Citations, a variety of Hogans, Walter Hagens, the PGA (later Tommy Armour) brand, late model Titleists oil-hardened tour models, MacGregor, Wilson Staffs, and the cannons (ha ha) that were the laminated maple Ping Eyes and Ping Zings. Watching this video and from my own playing experience, I thought: 
1. It's remarkable how great a driver Greg Norman was in his prime: very long and very accurate....which adds some nuance to the discussions about better athletes-swing speeds as the key elements in increased distances   
2. That said, it's probably true that these boys didn't 'optimize/tailor' the equipment...besides everything else (e.g. shaft flex, open/shut faces etc) it's striking how, with the old clubs and before the days of lofts being indicated, each club had its own personality that you had to discover and/or get used to: I can take out 5 persimmon drivers that all have stiff shafts and are all the same length and all look to have roughly the same loft, and the difference between how I hit them is night and day 
3. The 3 and 5 woods, it seems to me, have changed/improved a lot less than drivers have over the years: I find some noticeable difference in distance from the persimmon drivers and the modern titanium ones, but I find less difference with my 3 woods and least of all with 5 woods -- a Hogan 5 wood with speedslot and Apex 4 steel shaft, hit on the screws, goes just as far as my Ping G2 17 degree 5 wood with graphite shaft...and has the added benefit of letting even an average golfer like me 'work' the ball
4. Each generation, i think, develops a golf swing that best matches the equipment available when it was growing up. It wasn't a lack of education or understanding or technique or athleticism that had Bobby Jones swing like he did and Byron Nelson as he did or Ben Hogan or Jack Nicklaus or Greg Norman etc as they did. Playing partners (usually lower handicappers than me) will sometimes ask to hit the old equipment off the tee instead of their modern drivers, and the (unintentional) result is that I gain a whole new level of admiration from them -- there hasn't been one person who hasn't either sliced his tee shot wildly to the right or duck hooked/smothered it to the left. I tell them (and i mean it) that they just need to get used to it -- i.e. that if i can do so can they; but it is true that the swing I've developed has changed from the one I used when i played modern equipment.  And, while no one believes me, that swing -- i.e. more centered, more controlled -- and those clubs (with matching, period correct irons) have not only helped me become a better golfer but also to score better than I used to.
5. The golf ball. I don't know the physics, but how the Titleists I now use can go so far, and spin so little (i.e. not a banana ball to be seen in ages) and yet feel so good on and around the green is beyond me. What the heck would Mr. Nicklaus have accomplished with *that* in his bag instead of the wonky, spinny Macgregors?
Peter
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 03:34:56 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Ben Hollerbach

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2018, 05:02:22 PM »
The numbers don't add up to me. I doubt the players had much of a chance to swing the clubs before the contest and they didn't adapt to well. I'd also think that there was some selective editing, in an attempt to create some interesting content that would still be pro modern club manufacturers.

jeffwarne

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2018, 05:03:28 PM »
The balls were Volvik's which is the sponsor of the long drive championship.  While the modern ball certainly has increased distance off the tee, the modern driver is the bigger factor.


That certainly is different than what most around here think.  Ball rollback is discussed way more than driver technology rollback.


Cal,
As someone who believes a rollback should be seriously considered-I am aware the ball is only one factor..
But it is the easiest factor to control and still give people their waffle irons.
A driver rollback would be fantastic but--baby steps
and those who think it's mainly the drivers aren't watching the 270 yard three irons...


I'm also guessing a different ball would've been better for wood drivers than a Volvik
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Joe Zucker

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2018, 06:22:46 PM »
It also looks like it is pretty cold in the video, maybe 50-60F degrees?  The long drive championships I have seen where they hit it 400 yards were in Mesquite, NV which I bet was a lot warmer.  I would guess that they would pick up 10-20 yards if it were a normal 80F summer day. 


I would be very curious to see how close the persimmon would be to their modern clubs if they had a chance to optimize the ball and launch angle for a week on Trackman.  Their swings are made to take advantage of massive club heads, but I would be surprised if they all weren't averaging over 320 with a week of practice.

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2018, 03:42:13 AM »
It also looks like it is pretty cold in the video, maybe 50-60F degrees?  The long drive championships I have seen where they hit it 400 yards were in Mesquite, NV which I bet was a lot warmer.  I would guess that they would pick up 10-20 yards if it were a normal 80F summer day. 




+1.


+ theres enough wind blowing to ruffle their shirts. 15mph+?  Which direction? Anyone's guess.



On its own this tells us nothing.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Carl Rogers

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2018, 07:46:56 PM »
On this question on multiple other threads, I have advocated for:
1. no club longer than 43 inches
2. no graphite shaft
3. no titanium
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Peter Flory

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2018, 01:11:53 AM »

I enjoyed watching that. 


The one thing that stood out to me is how small the difference was between hickory shafts and steel.  I believe that a hickory driver has about 12 degrees of torque vs 3-4 with a modern shaft.  When you apply the crazy swing speeds of these guys, those shafts had to be twisting all over the place. 

Padraig Dooley

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Re: World Long Drive Persimmon Challenge
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2018, 06:12:15 AM »
The balls were Volvik's which is the sponsor of the long drive championship.  While the modern ball certainly has increased distance off the tee, the modern driver is the bigger factor.
The ball is definitely a bigger factor then the driver, any testing I've done points to this.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso