Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s Mammoth Dunes - All 18 pictured!

[Dan Moore]

Regarding pace of play. In a couple dozen rounds, I've yet to take more than 4.5 hours to play and most of the time its closer to 4.


I thought the temp greens last weekend were actually kinda fun-channeling the 19th century closely mown fescue fairway greens with divots to avoid.  Looking forward to the grand opening of all 18 on Mammoth a week from today.  Sandbox is just great fun. 


Greens should be fine in 2-3 weeks. Temps in 80's this weekend to get soil temps up and wake up the roots should really help. Just a brutal late winter up there. Twenty inches in mid-April that didn't melt to a week before opening. All things considered grounds staff has done a great job getting the courses in shape and dealing with the difficulties.  And kudos to management for reducing prices and offering $1 Spotted Cows, burgers and brats at the turn on Mammoth while things sort out. 

[Jon Claydon]

Had the privilege to play all 18 at mammoth yesterday.  no pins in 10-14, but holes were cut. 

14 is very fun.  one in our group drove the front edge of the green.  the grass is a little furry and the sprinklers were going non stop so expect to have a lot more run out once it is firm and fast like the rest of the course. 

10 is a very good short four as well.  running right to left up a hill to a green site nestled at the top of two dunes.  fun hole. 

[Michael Wolf]

I played Erin Hills first off the tee with Rich Tock last Saturday, and it was very bit of 4:45, 5 if you count the 10minutes back to the clubhouse. They'd cut it by 15 minutes simply by moving the turn house to the other side of the 9th green. Drove from Erin to Sand Valley in 2:11, and walked Sand Valley solo with a push cart in 3:15.


Re: the Sand Valley $1 beer and sliders (pretty sure they were $1.50) - in the pro shop the Spotted Cows are FREE while you shop. Beer tap set up over by window.

[Rob Rigg]

The pics of the course looks lovely - What an amazing site.

How much wind, especially variable wind, does SV get?
Mammoth looks like it has a TON of grass and very little demand for any type of accuracy off the tee?
Sure, there are preferred angles, but there is a training wheels element that makes me think about Gamble Sands, which trusted GCA'ers are pretty "meh" on, and Ogilvy's recent comments about the rub of the green influencing the enjoyment of a round. This may not be true, but having read comments about being able to hit the ball all over the place without significant consequence, I wonder how great the desire will be for repeat play? Especially for a decent stick?

Maybe with course #3 they will introduce something more intimate and challenging to Mammoth with SV in the middle?

Disclaimer: Haven't been there and hope to go one day. All observations based on the pics and commentary.

[Jon Claydon]

The pics of the course looks lovely - What an amazing site.

How much wind, especially variable wind, does SV get?
Mammoth looks like it has a TON of grass and very little demand for any type of accuracy off the tee?
Sure, there are preferred angles, but there is a training wheels element that makes me think about Gamble Sands, which trusted GCA'ers are pretty "meh" on, and Ogilvy's recent comments about the rub of the green influencing the enjoyment of a round. This may not be true, but having read comments about being able to hit the ball all over the place without significant consequence, I wonder how great the desire will be for repeat play? Especially for a decent stick?

Maybe with course #3 they will introduce something more intimate and challenging to Mammoth with SV in the middle?

Disclaimer: Haven't been there and hope to go one day. All observations based on the pics and commentary.

There are several holes that don't require accuracy off the tee, but not the majority.  1 has a massive fairway with little trouble, 2 requires accuracy to have an opportunity to see the pin on a dog log, 3 requires a tee shot that challenges the longest carry over the waste area to have a clear second shot into the green, five has a wide fairway but anything left of center will leave a blind shot to the green, six is a driveable par 4 with a precise tee shot required to hit the green or be close; seven has a big fairway but there's a blind angled drive over the hill and the natural inclination is to play safe left which leaves a much longer shot  from a worse angle into the green; nine has a menacing center bunker and waste area right that is basically dead; 10 has a tiny landing area; 11 has lots of fairway to the right but several challenging bunkers down the center and left which is the most direct line of play; 12 has the most penal fairway bunker on the course -- the back wall is huge and advancing to the green is impossible; 14 requires a very precise tee shot to have a chance of driving the green; 15 is very wide and a long hitter can blast away; 17 is also wide open; and 18 requires a shot between two large waste areas. 

in my opinion only 1, 15 and 17 lets you bomb away without worrying about consequences. 

[Rob Rigg]

Thanks Jon - Appreciate the insight! Sounds a lot more challenging off the tee than Gamble - at least if you want to find the right angles / views into the green.

It'll be interesting to get a feel for the "How would you split 10 rounds" SV vs Mammoth debate after a bunch of peeps have played them both back to back.

[Daryl David]

Thanks Jon - Appreciate the insight! Sounds a lot more challenging off the tee than Gamble - at least if you want to find the right angles / views into the green.

Quite true. While the fairways at both courses are incredibly wide, the greens at Mammoth are far more interesting than Gamble Sands and require some thought as to angle.  Not much decision making in that regard at Gamble due to the many back and side boards that reroute errant shots to the middle.

[Connor Dougherty]

I was out there yesterday and happened to run into both Jeffrey Bertch (a fellow GCAer) and David McLay Kidd, certainly an added bonus to the trip I made out to see it. I didn't play 10-13 but did hit tee shots on 14 to see how the hole would play.


As it exists now it's playing a bit soft for any of the hazards to really threaten play on the front 9. Most of the strategy presents itself in visuals: one side of the fairway is partially blind while the other has a better view in, but playing from one side or the other doesn't necessarily have a huge difference, so those frequently playing it may lose some interest over time, but most players are only playing a couple times at best, so I like the variety it presents. As it played yesterday, it was a bit disheartening how little role the hazards played on the front, but if it gets firmer and faster that will change.


The back 9 however, specifically that 10-15 stretch which hasn't opened yet, is fantastic. The 10th is probably my favorite of the bunch, I'd say it has a bigger landing area than Jon indicates, but it reminded me a lot of the 10th at Royal Melbourne West, with the only difference being that those laying up still have to play up to the saddle in the ridge line. 14 is a lot of fun, although I wonder how difficult it really will be for players to drive the green, or if there's any other play that really makes any sense there. If you're long enough you can bomb it off the 15th tee with no fear, but the approach into that green is heavily guarded by short grass and bunkers where up and down is hardly a guarantee.


I don't think it'll crack top 100 lists but I'd happily go back there to play it again. Hopefully it firms up as the fall rolls around.

[Jon Claydon]

Apologies, I was unclear regarding the 10th.  The landing area is decent sized if you are laying up.  Target is small if going for the green. 

[Howard Riefs]

Good early reviews...


Golf Advisor
https://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/klein-on-mammoth-dunes-17778.htm
 
Golf.com
http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/2018/05/31/mammoth-dunes-sand-valley-midwest-golf-courses
 
http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/2018/05/30/sand-valleys-mammoth-dunes-course-wows-early-and-often
 
Golf Digest
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mammoth-dunes-at-sand-valley-how-david-mclay-kidd-used-bandon-dunes-as-inspiration-to-bring-fun-back-to-golf
 
Golfweek
https://golfweek.com/2018/05/30/golf-architect-david-mclay-kidd-balances-challenging-with-playable-in-new-wisconsin-course/
 
Forbes.com
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2018/05/31/a-first-look-at-mammoth-dunes-20-years-after-bandon-mclay-kidd-delivers-fun-golf-to-wisconsin/#42c2f0ca17f7

[V_Halyard]

I have been at Sand Valley and Mammoth for the past week filming and suggest that those visit the site and make their own evaluation rather than armchair guessing that it is too easy or too slow. Having played it in all conditions including stripped pure sand, it accomplishes its mission to deliver a big dose of fun.
It is a wide bold dramatic piece of golf that can be enjoyed by low, mid and high handicaps. It is also configurable to be placid or brutal based on the cut, water management, tee box and pin placement.
The grass is still healing from 2 feet of snow a scant 18 or 20 days ago and the cut of the greens is Sottish winter long.

Note that DMK has been open and transparent that this is not a course designed to necessarily inflict pain. He accomplished his mission quite impressively as it is designed to deliver fun and make people want to take laps. Tee times and rooms are sold out for much of the summer so those that think it is "too easy" or "Toothless" are welcome and their opinions are respected but realistically...
From the proper tee, this is not designed to be a penal track, it is an invitation to play sand dune/barren golf with big dramatic approaches and greens. Trust me, there are secret and alternate tee and pin combination locations that can deliver the appropriate challenge.
When the grass and fairways heal and begin to run, the story will likely change and holding greens will become a fescue festival.

[V_Halyard]

Regarding pace of play. In a couple dozen rounds, I've yet to take more than 4.5 hours to play and most of the time its closer to 4.


I thought the temp greens last weekend were actually kinda fun-channeling the 19th century closely mown fescue fairway greens with divots to avoid.  Looking forward to the grand opening of all 18 on Mammoth a week from today.  Sandbox is just great fun. 


Greens should be fine in 2-3 weeks. Temps in 80's this weekend to get soil temps up and wake up the roots should really help. Just a brutal late winter up there. Twenty inches in mid-April that didn't melt to a week before opening. All things considered grounds staff has done a great job getting the courses in shape and dealing with the difficulties.  And kudos to management for reducing prices and offering $1 Spotted Cows, burgers and brats at the turn on Mammoth while things sort out.

Agree, the greens were actually the same speed as its Scottish cousins about this time of year.
I expect some savvy locals to attempt to ATV to the Mammoth 1/2 Hut for some of the best tasting food deals in town. Alas the old road is quite closed. ha