tee angles on par threes

[Tommy Williamsen]

Ballyhack has three par threes that have multiple angles to the greens. The greens seem to be receptive to each angle. Some pins are more difficult from specific tees, however. Unfortunately, they really do not allow different angles from similar distances. Consequently, not many of us (who don't care what tee markers we play) get to experience the different angles.
Three questions:
1. Are there many holes that you know that allow very different angles from similar distances?
2. Are there design constraints that dictate creating varied angles to the greens?
3. Why don't we mix up the tees more on some par threes? For instance, have the back tee in front of the middle tee once in a while.

[JESII]

Maybe not where you were hoping this would go Tom, but I personally think par 3’s should be the place for architects to say “hit this shot, now”.


In that vein, I’d propose very few tees at a specific angle to the green so that we can try to answer the call.


I view 4’s and 5’s as the opportunity to let the player show their variety of skill and strategy...but at some point you have to ask a specific question, don’t you?

[James Brown]

The Golden Horseshoe has a couple of interesting par 3s with differing angles from roughly the same distances over water to well protected greens. 

[Wade Whitehead]

Tommy:
I think #6 at Tobacco Road may pull off what you are describing.
Tee boxes curve around the hole and offer completely different angles - and totally different shots - all from similar yardages.
Wish I had a good photo.  Guessing someone else will.
WW

[Ally Mcintosh]

The best example I know is the 8th at The Castle Course in St Andrews.


All 5 tees play from the same distance (more or less) over a large angle. It makes a big difference. Works very well.

[Joe Bausch]

The first example that comes to my mind is the 3rd at Royal New Kent, a Mike Strantz design:



Photos of the hole begin here:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/RoyalNewKent/pages/page_14.html?

[James Bennett]

Riviera #14, a par 3 played towards the afternoon sun in the west.Three tees, for summer, for spring/autumn and for winter.

[Tom_Doak]

On short par-3's this is partly just a function of giving the superintendent enough tee space.  No one is going to play from 90 yards if you make a long tee, so you have to go wide to give him enough square footage ... and then you get creative from there.

[Jay Mickle]

Tommy:
I think #6 at Tobacco Road may pull off what you are describing.
Tee boxes curve around the hole and offer completely different angles - and totally different shots - all from similar yardages.
Wish I had a good photo.  Guessing someone else will.
WW

Tobacco Road #6 by Jay Mickle, on Flickr

[Blake Conant]

If you're trying to build a green that works from 60-90+ degrees of angle, it's going to be hard not to compromise a potentially better hole to accommodate the width of teeing ground.  Say it's really good from over on the left, but that makes it blind or too shallow from the right, do you continue down the path of an amphitheater tee and change a good green or do you consolidate the tees so everyone can play the best golf hole?

[Jay Mickle]

I surely don't believe that #6 at Tobacco Road would rate as one of the best par 3s on this website but I believe that it would surely be in the running for one of the most fun par 3s of the people who play it. So which is best?

[Kalen Braley]

I posted a picture of it years ago.


There's a hole in Saudi somewhere with an island green and tee boxes placed along the full 360 degree area around it.  Not sure how you can one up that!! 

[Pete_Pittock]

9th at the Kingsley Club, but only two tees at 90* angles.
For a while Bandon Dunes #1, also at 90* angle


The 8th at the OGA Tukwila course has two tees, one a slight drop-shot, and the other with about a 30' rise. Virtually the same angle.


Works best with either angled green or wide/narrow.

[Jeff Schley]

I posted a picture of it years ago.


There's a hole in Saudi somewhere with an island green and tee boxes placed along the full 360 degree area around it.  Not sure how you can one up that!! 

What???

[Tom_Doak]

If you're trying to build a green that works from 60-90+ degrees of angle, it's going to be hard not to compromise a potentially better hole to accommodate the width of teeing ground.  Say it's really good from over on the left, but that makes it blind or too shallow from the right, do you continue down the path of an amphitheater tee and change a good green or do you consolidate the tees so everyone can play the best golf hole?

Having built an entire course where the angles of approacch differed by 90 degrees or more, this question of "compromising the best hole" bothered me a lot.  It's as if you think there is only one correct solution to each puzzle!  Different strokes for different folks ... the only problem is that some people may not get to play their favorite iteration of a hole when they want to.  But they shouldn't be so spoiled.

[Cal Seifert]

The short hole at yale has tee boxes of sognificantly different elevations and a few different angles if I remember correctly.

[Blake Conant]

Tom, what I was referring to was when an architect uses an amphitheater tee in an attempt to make the same green on a par 3 play like two different holes, like 6 at Tobacco Road, 3 at Royal New Kent, or 16 at Deer Creek in Omaha (an Arnold Palmer Course where I worked as a teen).  Of the best par 3s I've played or seen, I can't recall any that use that strategy for the teeing ground. I'm sure someone somewhere has done the amphitheater tee well, but the ones I've seen are gimmicky and oversaturated.  On top of that, those holes are inherently less walkable when you're having to trek across 100+ yards of tee to get to the far end (I suppose if you're on a carts only course it doesn't matter).


Also, I wouldn't want my comment on angles and compromise to be lumped into a bigger statement on reversible courses, short courses, or sheep ranch type courses.  I think that's a different conversation because those are examples of a different course, hole, length of hole, or routing playing to the same green. 


And I certainly wouldn't want to give the impression that I believe there's an objective "right answer" when it comes to building a golf hole.  Hope it didn't come across that way. 

[Kalen Braley]

I posted a picture of it years ago.


There's a hole in Saudi somewhere with an island green and tee boxes placed along the full 360 degree area around it.  Not sure how you can one up that!! 

What? ??

Jeff,


I found it in my archives.  Can't recall what the course name is, but you can see all the potential teeing areas..

[Thomas Dai]

Pondering this is relation to forced carries vrs the ground game and the potential for play by all sorts of types of player whether they be young bucks or wee kiddies or the infirm or the aged etc.
Atb

[Tommy Williamsen]

One of the things I like about playing a par three from different angles is that each shot might require a different shot into the green. Depending upon the tee shot, the second shot on a par four is played from a variety of places and angles. Why not do the same on par threes?