[BHoover]

Gary McCord may not have won in 16 years on Tour, yet he still played on Tour. For a master of the game like Garland to call McCord a “flop” is absolutely hilarious.

[JESII]

Spending time on McCords professional career is a total waste of time...and while I don’t know him, I suspect he’d agree.

[John Burnes]

     All the greats in our game had some flaws.  Some mentioned here, more than others.  Hogan may have been an introvert or even short with some people, but he was not rude or impolite.  Some of the stories shared here, the other party was rude.  Maybe Faldo didn't play his clubs, rubbed him the wrong way, or just didn't like him.  What obligation does Hogan have to a guy that admittedly was difficult to get along with and had no connection with whatsoever?
The McCord story resonates with me (I think it was true), because that is just how single-minded Hogan was.  He was so driven to win, he determined there simply wasn't enough hours in the day to practice the complete game.  His club-making business came about in the twilight of his career.  There were no side hustles then.
In 1930, his turning pro at 17 in the depression, and hearing your Dad kill himself with a .38 as a kid, gets you a couple of exemptions, don’t you think?
I’ll take Hogan, you can have the rest.
 

[Jon Wiggett]

Jeff,


to even think that Hogan, one of the all time greats would not have made it on the tour today makes me think you have completely lost it and are happily frolicking in some fantasy world.


BHoover,


in comparison to Hogan, which was Garland's point, he was.

[Garland Bayley]

Gary McCord may not have won in 16 years on Tour, yet he still played on Tour. For a master of the game like Garland to call McCord a “flop” is absolutely hilarious.

Brian,

You don't get it. McCord considered himself to be a flop.

Besides, there would be 64 major championships in 16 years. He only qualified for 3, cut twice, T54 once. Just gotta say that is not a record to put on your resume.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,


to even think that Hogan, one of the all time greats would not have made it on the tour today makes me think you have completely lost it and are happily frolicking in some fantasy world.

Jon,
As I said, comparing eras is a fools errand.


In rereading my post I see where it could could come across as you described it.
I meant his first 7-8 years would've driven him off a modern more deeper tour as there's far less forgiveness now and less in the 1980;s as well.

I did not say(or at least mean) Hogan would not make it on Tour today-His game 1940-1960 compares favorably with the greatest of all time and would compete/win in any era.
I stated that after 10 years of being unable to win on a tour that severely lacked depth in the 1930's (for a variety of obvious reasons) that Hogan certainly would've struggled to have made a living playing golf on the modern tour while finding something that worked if he had played in another era.(he himself admittedly was down to his last dollar on several occasions during that search for a game to compete at a higher level, and was forced off the tour to club pro jobs (as many were) on many occasions.
No slight on Hogan's perseverance, ability or accomplishments-just saying he struggled quite a long time and such a performance would have nowhere to play in a later more competitive depthwise era.


My context is that I find it a bit harsh for Hogan to belittle someone whose 16 year career wasn't that much worse than Hogan's formative early years on tour. (Hogan did finish 13th in money in 1938(his 9th year on tour) but it's not like there were 500 players fighting for spots on tour then)

[Peter Pallotta]

Two things are true, I think:
1. While Gary didn't win on the pga tour, he was a better golfer than anyone I've ever played with or will likely ever play with, and is by any 'real life' standard, an excellent golfer who can show up today on the course we can't break 80 on and shoot an easy 68.
2. The name on the back of my irons is Ben's, not Gary's.
PS
Yesterday, using Ben's mb blades, I played a 9 hole, Par 35 course ....and came in with a 33.
That has nothing to do with anything, but it was a first for me and I had to find a way to tell you!

[BHoover]

Gary McCord may not have won in 16 years on Tour, yet he still played on Tour. For a master of the game like Garland to call McCord a “flop” is absolutely hilarious.

Brian,

You don't get it. McCord considered himself to be a flop.

Besides, there would be 64 major championships in 16 years. He only qualified for 3, cut twice, T54 once. Just gotta say that is not a record to put on your resume.

You don’t get my point...you shouldn’t be criticizing anyone’s golf game. McCord could, and still can, get the ball airborne. You can’t.

[JESII]

Congratulations Peter...that is awesome!

[Joe Hancock]

Congratulations Peter...that is awesome!

+1!!!! Awesome score!

[Peter Pallotta]

 
Ah, thanks Jim and Joe, for indulging me.
I know it's silly to boast or even to mention a particular score, but I really did quite feel proud of accomplishing it -- even though it was on a fairly short and easy course. Mostly, I was pleased that I managed to stay in good tempo throughout and kept with the compact, centered swing I've been trying to develop.
Golfers like you maybe won't understand this, but starting to play better/more consistently even makes the thought of travelling for golf more appealing; for many years, the notion of getting to a special course and playing with special gca-ers made me uncomfortable -- though i don't have much ego invested in golf, it's still embarrassing for me to put such a mediocre game on display, especially on a golf course that 'deserves better'.
Anyway, thanks again.
I'm not sure whether I want to get out again tomorrow, or instead never play again!          

[Jon Wiggett]

Peter,


nice round.


Jeff,


what you say is correct in so far as the first years of his career not being in the winner's circle however to suggest that he would not have made it beyond those years whilst in the context of the comparison to a player of 16 winless years seems somewhat confused (that was my point and maybe we are talking about two slightly different things and so both correct  )


BHoover,


having seen Mr. Bayley in action over the last few days I can state without doubt he can get the ball airborne. I do wonder why you continue to defend a person who could not answer the simple question of 'why do you do what you do'. I do not think that Hogan thought less of him for not winning as he understood how that was but I do think he might well have thought it daft to do something such as play on the tour whilst not wanting to win or why you play.


I have never talked to a tour pro who did not practice and play with the aim of winning even if they did not come close to often.

[BHoover]

Do you honestly think McCord did not try to win on Tour? He did win on the Senior Tour. So my guess is that he “played up” his playing record for comedic effect. Regardless of what Garland thinks, anyone on Tour is a better player than most of us can ever pretend to be.

[Garland Bayley]

"anyone on Tour is a better player than most of us can ever pretend to be."

This so obvious that I am surprised anyone would bother writing it. If it weren't for Z Blair you could probably write all instead of most.

[Kalen Braley]

Bhoover is of course correct.


Gary was clearly exhibiting a little self-deprecating humor.  The fact that he was on tour for 16 years says he had insane talent, even if not one of the games elite to win or do so multiple times on tour.  All of us run into someone sooner or later who will hand you your proverbial ass, unless you're named Tiger or Jack....

[JMEvensky]

PS
Yesterday, using Ben's mb blades, I played a 9 hole, Par 35 course ....and came in with a 33.
That has nothing to do with anything, but it was a first for me and I had to find a way to tell you!

Way to go Peter.

[Jim Nugent]

Just saw an interesting article about Hogan and the 1950 US Open he won at Merion.  A few highlights...
* Hogan could judge distance so well by eye, he told Merion the course was shorter than the card read.  Ten years later the club remeasured and took off 200 yards from the scorecard.
* For that US Open, plus three others, the out of bounds penalty was distance only (not stroke and distance). 

* On USGA orders, the club replaced its wicker baskets with traditional flagsticks. 

* Again on USGA suggestions, the club added two bunkers to the right of the 10th fairway, in the landing zone.  Later they took those bunkers out. 

* In the 18 hole playoff, Lloyd Mangrum took a 2-stroke penalty on the 16th green for picking up his ball to blow a bug off it.  That was after blowing his approach to the 12th 30 yards over the green, to a spot the USGA official ruled OOB -- even though it was still within course boundaries.  Reportedly Mangrum asked for a 9-iron but his caddie gave him a 6.  Hard for me to imagine Mangrum mistaking his 6-iron for his 9, but maybe in the heat of the moment of a US Open playoff. 

There's more, and here is the link for anyone interested...http://theaposition.com/davidhbarrett/golf/personalities/628/strange-but-true-facts-about-ben-hogan-merion-and-the-1950-u-s-open

[Jon Wiggett]

Do you honestly think McCord did not try to win on Tour? He did win on the Senior Tour. So my guess is that he “played up” his playing record for comedic effect. Regardless of what Garland thinks, anyone on Tour is a better player than most of us can ever pretend to be.

I do not know but then apparently neither did McCord Your other comments are true but also blustering and irrelevant having nothing to do with the subject.

[BHoover]

Do you honestly think McCord did not try to win on Tour? He did win on the Senior Tour. So my guess is that he “played up” his playing record for comedic effect. Regardless of what Garland thinks, anyone on Tour is a better player than most of us can ever pretend to be.

I do not know but then apparently neither did McCord Your other comments are true but also blustering and irrelevant having nothing to do with the subject.

You’re right. I allowed myself, foolishly, to get sucked into the vortex that is Garland. I can do better than that.

[Rick Shefchik]

Bhoover is of course correct.


Gary was clearly exhibiting a little self-deprecating humor.  The fact that he was on tour for 16 years says he had insane talent, even if not one of the games elite to win or do so multiple times on tour.  All of us run into someone sooner or later who will hand you your proverbial ass, unless you're named Tiger or Jack....

Here, I think, is the rub. Taking in all I've read about Hogan, I cannot imagine that he found Gary McCord's self-deprecating humor amusing.

[Rick Emerson]

Ben Hogan is my favorite golfer of all time. As a professional musician I like the same thing about golf and music. I like enjoy focused practice and watching it pay off. What I appreciate about Hogan was his incredible work ethic. He just out practiced, out worked, and out thought everyone else. He also held himself and others to incredibly high standards and I think that often, when he was short with people it was either because "he was at work in his office" and couldn't be bothered or he was upset by someone not living up to his incredibly high standards. Everyone who ever spent significant time with him seemed to revere, respect, and even love him. They also seemed to think he was a good man of character. This book dispels a lot of myths about Hogan.
https://www.amazon.com/Ben-Hogan-Myths-Everyone-Knows/dp/1629370967/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1527653197&sr=8-2&keywords=ben+hogan+the+man

[Kalen Braley]

Bhoover is of course correct.


Gary was clearly exhibiting a little self-deprecating humor.  The fact that he was on tour for 16 years says he had insane talent, even if not one of the games elite to win or do so multiple times on tour.  All of us run into someone sooner or later who will hand you your proverbial ass, unless you're named Tiger or Jack....

Here, I think, is the rub. Taking in all I've read about Hogan, I cannot imagine that he found Gary McCord's self-deprecating humor amusing.

Rick,


I was referring to his book, where he says he wasn't good enough for the tour, not his meeting with Hogan.


But either way, I would have zero interest in hanging out with anyone who lacks at least some sense of humor, famous or not! 

[Garland Bayley]

But either way, I would have zero interest in hanging out with anyone who lacks at least some sense of humor, famous or not! 

See, here is where you guys go completely off the rails. Ben Hogan had a terrific sense of humor. And, it was self deprecating too! He referred to his humorous character as Henny Bogan.

[BHoover]

But either way, I would have zero interest in hanging out with anyone who lacks at least some sense of humor, famous or not! 

See, here is where you guys go completely off the rails. Ben Hogan had a terrific sense of humor. And, it was self deprecating too! He referred to his humorous character as Henny Bogan.

Wow, you’re right. That name is really clever.

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