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MCirba

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How many NLE courses have you played?
« on: May 13, 2018, 07:01:45 PM »
As an offshoot to the "How Many Courses Have You Played?" thread, I thought it might be interesting and appropriate to take a virtual moment of silence to pay tribute to those courses from our past that no longer exist.

In my case, of 1089 courses played I would have thought I'd have a higher percentage of NLE's than only 70 (EDIT now 84)   I'm rather sure there may be some from my past I'm unaware have gone under, but I'm confident that this is probably at least over 80% of them.

Ashbourne (PA)
Bear Brook (NJ)
Beechtree (MD)
Belle Terre (Championship) (SC)
Belle Terre (Executive) (SC)
B.L. England (NJ)
Blue Heron Pines (East) (NJ)
Brandywine (DE)
Brantwood (MD)
Cedarbrook Hill (PA)
Cedar Run (DE)
Center Valley (PA)
Cherokee (PA)
Cherry Valley (PA)
City Park (Championship) (LA)
City Park (Wisner) (LA)
Cohanzick (NJ)
Concord (Monster) (NY)
Eagle Lodge (PA)
Eagle's Nest (NJ)
Edgmont (PA)
Evergreen Park (PA)
Farview Greens (PA)
Felicita (PA)
Green Hills (PA)
Harlem Valley (NY)
Hawk Lake (PA)
Heather Glen (SC)
Hershey Parkview (PA)
Hidden Springs (Professional) (PA)
High Pointe (MI)
Holly Hills (NJ)
Horsham Valley (PA)
Indian Creek (PA)
Island Green (PA)
Liberty Valley (PA)
Long Shadow (GA)
Marsh Harbour (SC)
Meadow Brook (PA)
Meadowbrook (PA)
Miry Run (NJ)
Montgomeryville (PA)
Mountain Manor (Blue/Yellow) (PA)
Mountain Manor (Silver/Orange) (PA)
Mount Pocono (PA)
Nemacolin Woodlands (Links) (PA)
Oak Ridge (NJ)Olde Masters (PA)
Pecan Valley (TX)
Perry (PA)
Philadelphia Quartette (PA)
Pine Shore (MD)
Pit (NC)
Pocono Manor (West) (PA)
Ponderlodge (NJ)
Riddell's Bay (BM)
Robber's Roost (SC)
Somerton Springs (PA)Stonehouse (VA)
Tallgrass (NY)
Tamcrest (NJ)
Tamiment (PA)
Three Little Bakers (DE)
Upland (MD)
Upper Perk (PA)
Valley Forge (PA)
Vandegrift (DE)
Wakefield Valley (MD)
Walnut Acres (PA)
Waterway Hills (SC)
Wild Wing (Falcon) (SC)
Wild Wing (Wood Stork) (SC)
Willowbrook (NJ)
Wiscasset (PA)
Wolf Hollow (PA)
Woodbridge (PA)
Woodland Hills (PA)
Woods (PA)
Woods (Pitch & Putt) (PA)
Wren Dale (PA)
Yorktowne (PA)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 10:08:57 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Joe Bausch

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Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2018, 07:07:06 PM »
You need to get out more.  :)


And “I’m glad they went bankrupt!”
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 07:14:23 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2018, 08:02:19 PM »
As an offshoot to the "How Many Courses Have You Played?" thread, I thought it might be interesting and appropriate to take a virtual moment of silence to pay tribute to those courses from our past that no longer exist.

In my case, of 1083 courses played I would have thought I'd have a higher percentage of NLE's than only 70.   I'm rather sure there may be some from my past I'm unaware have gone under, but I'm confident that this is probably at least over 80% of them.

Ashbourne (PA)
Bear Brook (NJ)
Beechtree (MD)
Belle Terre (Championship) (SC)
Belle Terre (Executive) (SC)
B.L. England (NJ)
Blue Heron Pines (East) (NJ)
Brandywine (DE)
Brantwood (MD)
Cedarbrook Hill (PA)
Cedar Run (DE)
Center Valley (PA)
Cherokee (PA)
Cherry Valley (PA)
Cohanzick (NJ)
Eagle Lodge (PA)
Eagle's Nest (NJ)
Edgmont (PA)
Evergreen Park (PA)
Farview Greens (PA)
Felicita (PA)
Harlem Valley (NY)
Hawk Lake (PA)
Hershey Parkview (PA)
Hidden Springs (Professional) (PA)
High Pointe (MI)
Holly Hills (NJ)
Horsham Valley (PA)
Indian Creek (PA)
Island Green (PA)
Liberty Valley (PA)
Long Shadow (GA)
Marsh Harbour (SC)
Meadow Brook (PA)
Miry Run (NJ)
Montgomeryville (PA)
Mountain Manor (Blue/Yellow) (PA)
Mountain Manor (Silver/Orange) (PA)
Mount Pocono (PA)
Nemacolin Woodlands (Links) (PA)
Oak Ridge (NJ)
Pecan Valley (TX)
Perry (PA)
Pine Shore (MD)
Pit (NC)
Pocono Manor (West) (PA)
Ponderlodge (NJ)
Robber's Roost (SC)
Somerton Springs (PA)
Tamcrest (NJ)
Tamiment (PA)
Three Little Bakers (DE)
Upland (MD)
Upper Perk (PA)
Valley Forge (PA)
Vandegrift (DE)
Wakefield Valley (MD)
Walnut Acres (PA)
Wild Wing (Falcon) (SC)
Wild Wing (Wood Stork) (SC)
Wiscasset (PA)
Wolf Hollow (PA)
Woodbridge (PA)
Woodland Hills (PA)
Woods (PA)
Woods (Pitch & Putt) (PA)
Wren Dale (PA)
Yorktowne (PA)


I thought about inviting you to my club, but...never mind.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2018, 08:18:25 PM »
Tommy,


Considering I've been playing golf since July 13, 1971, or going on 47 years i think a less than 7% NLE is fairly good.   


You're still invited to join me/us at Cobb's Creek any time. I am sure we'd have a good time.  ;)


"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2018, 08:23:56 PM »
Interestingly, four of my NLE'S currently have new courses built over them on the same site. 


And two courses (Yorktowne & Hawk Lake) both went under on the same site in York, PA.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2018, 08:29:35 PM »

That's about 4.5%.

Oregon (21): West Hills, Hoyt Park, Pleasant Valley, Orenco Woods, Neahkahnie, Top O'Scott, Veterans Memorial, Colwood Natl., Bandon (hickory), McKenzie River, Broadmoor, Sandelie, Sheep Ranch (Doak), Marysville, Oswego Lake GC, Juniper (original loci),
Ontario, Olalla Valley, Red Mountain, Bay Breeze, Kah-nee-ta.


St Helens and Smith Rock are listed as inactive

Elsewhere (17)
Beechtree  MD
Sea Marsh SC
Bahamas - 1 unk
Castle Harbour Bermuda
Stevinson Ranch CA
The Pit NC
Pinehurst (#4?) NC
Black Forest at Wilderness MI
Oakhurst WV
Badlands, NV
Grandote Peaks, CO
Long Shadow GA
Apache Stronghold
Primm Valley x2, CA
Lakeview Par 3 Challenge (WA)
Sheraton-Makaha (HI)
None of them were NLE when I played. No golf courses were hurt by me playing them..

Note that High Pointe, Wolf Point and Sagebrush came off the list because they reopened or plan to do so)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 06:41:06 PM by Pete_Pittock »

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2018, 08:34:37 PM »
I'm jealous, Mike. I've only got 40 NLEs that I know of. I'll have to google all the courses I've played that I'm not sure are still 'E' to see if I can get some more.[size=78%] [/size] :P

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2018, 08:56:07 PM »
Ocean Breeze in Boca Raton, FL
Sarasota GC
Thunderbird/Vistal in Phoenix
Maryvale       "
Indian Bend in Scottsdale
Badlands in Las Vegas
Riddells Bay in Bermuda
Concord ( 2 courses) in NY
Royal New Kent in VA
Melrose in SC
Rydal in PA
Quartett in PA
Meadowbrook in PA


And from Mike Cirba's list:

Ashbourne (PA)
Beechtree (MD)
Belle Terre (Championship) (SC)
Belle Terre (Executive) (SC)
Blue Heron Pines (East) (NJ)
Brandywine (DE)
Cedarbrook Hill (PA)
Center Valley (PA)
Eagle Lodge (PA)
Hershey Parkview (PA)
Hidden Springs  (PA)
Horsham Valley (PA)
Island Green (PA)
Montgomeryville (PA)
Mount Pocono (PA)
Somerton Springs (PA)
Tamiment (PA)
Three Little Bakers (DE)
Upper Perk (PA)
Valley Forge (PA)
Woods (PA)
Woods (Pitch & Putt) (PA)
Wren Dale/Hershey Links (PA)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 10:12:40 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2018, 11:25:09 PM »

I can only think of two.


West Bowling in Bradford which was sold off to become an industrial park netting the members £30K+ each and Ballindarroch a nine holer near Inverness which closed to allow more grain to be grown for the landowners distillery. Both courses where financially viable at the time of their closure.

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2018, 12:11:28 AM »
Only one that I know of is the Fazio one at Disney World. Osprey Ridge, I think it was. Happy memories as I played in a corporate outing there as a teenager with my dad and my brother as a 3 man scramble team and we won the whole thing.

I've played two in Denver that are in grave danger though - Park Hill and Applewood. I suppose neither would be a profound loss architecturally, though Park Hill is special because I've been trying to break 70 for the first time for a few years and that's where I've come closest to it (twice I've shot 70 on the number). So on that front, obviously I'd be sad to see it go, although it's about as basic as a golf course gets.


American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Cory Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2018, 06:42:06 AM »
37 NLE out of 1400 courses played.  12 from Mike's list. Beechtree is the one that hurts the most.  Spent 2 glorious years as an assistant there.  Wonderful place.
Instagram: @2000golfcourses
http://2000golfcourses.blogspot.com

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2018, 06:53:17 AM »
Two, both under five miles from home. Mobberley was a dreadful, badly designed course which has reverted to countryside. Lower Peover was quite a good course of 18 holes that folded when the landowner wanted greater income from his land.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 07:26:41 AM »
I made it a habit to play all the courses in Toronto just before they disappear.
Wish I photographed them in hindsight ...


The only one that really bothers me to this day is the old IBM course.
There is 8 1/2 holes still remaining, but the original was an excellent golf course.


We've lost another 8 in the last few years to development.
Once the greenbelt was established, any marginal golf course became destined for development.
And now there's not any land available for new golf inside of that belt.
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2018, 08:18:35 AM »
One thing that this thread brings home to me is that the traditional members club model of ownership prevalent in the UK has managed to save a good many courses from being redeveloped for something else. If they were all in single ownership I'm sure it would be a different matter, as evidenced by the two examples provided by Jon W.

Niall 

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2018, 09:17:27 AM »
Pasting over from my (apparently inspiring!) post on the other thread...23/771 courses played or just under 3%.  I wouldn't consider Osprey Ridge a NLE course, as it's the same Fazio as before with an added par three in the middle of the back nine and the 18th changed from a long 4 to a long 3.

Several of these have closed in the last year or two...Aetna Springs, Glen Ellen (a Ron Prichard c. 2000 redo), Lakeview (after 60 years), Wolf Run, Riddell's Bay.

Alpha by state then course name:

Aetna Springs, CA.  Well-documented here.
Cougar Canyon, CO.  Trekked almost down to NM for this Nicklaus course, but it hasn't been open since 2014 or so.
Boca Raton Executive CC, FL.  Used to play here when I was 13-14 visiting my friend who moved down.  Forgettable.
Diamondback GC, FL.  A Joe Lee course carved from the jungle across the street from Grenelefe.  Was pretty fun, if impenetrable off the fairway.
Eagle Pines at Disney, FL.  Now lays under the Four Seasons...it was pretty good if regular Dye stuff.
Grenelefe West, FL.  What a strange history for this development, from it's peak in the 80s/90s, this course hosted Q School a couple times...then it had a long decline into the early 2000s when I visited.  I think the other two courses are still open, but this one was the best one.  I think Grenelefe still exists as a development entity, but it's changed hands several times.
Marriott Grande Pines, FL...plowed under for development c. 2015...it was pretty good, more traditionally-minded than most Orlando fare.
Sugarloaf Mountain, FL.  Well-documented C&C that fell victim to the recession.
Longshadow, GA.  Former Dixie Cup host, one of Mike Young's best.
Kauai Lagoons Mokihana, HI (remants still exist in the form of practice holes)...a regular, modern Nicklaus that was the relief course for it's sister.  A few holes bordered the runway at Lihue airport.
Kona CC (Alii), HI.  Not sure what happened here, but the Ocean Course is the only game at Kona CC today.
Wolf Run, IN.  Closed after 2017 for redevelopment.
Beechtree, MD.  Well documented Doak.  Played it once just before it closed on a special trip, very nice place.
Colonial GC, MA.  Now lies under the MarketStreet mall, had its roots in the 40s.  Used to have a long par four right along 128.
Glen Ellen, MA (may re-open as 9, who knows)...Ron Prichard re-bunkered this 60s-era course...was pretty good!
Lakeview, MA.  A mom-and-pop executive nine along 114 on the North Shore of Boston, it operated for 70 years before closing in 2016.
Quail Ridge, MA (the back nine was closed, 9 holes now).  Ill-fated course opened just before the recession.
Winchendon School GC, MA (a Ross!).  Owned by the Winchendon School, which occupies the original clubhouse, they decided in 2016 to stop paying to maintain it.  Too bad, its a fun if short Ross mail-in course that is worth saving.
Tallgrass, NY.  Well-documented Hanse course.  I shot 68 on my only visit!
Marsh Harbour, NC.  Target golf, although one of the better layouts in Myrtle at the time...at least on the Northern end.
The Pit, NC.  Wild course that may one day be covered by C&C's Pinehurst #10.
Valley Forge, PA.  Findlay roots I think..I played it once when I was 15, and hit a couple balls into very busy traffic.
Riddell's Bay, Bermuda.  Ridiculous.  In theory could re-open 9 at some point, but I believe the developers have started taking one nine apart already.  Open land is at a premium in BDA, not sure why anyone let this happen.

There are some others that are certainly in limbo, and a few that have been heavily re-designed, but I did not include those above.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 11:10:37 AM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2018, 09:42:11 AM »
Only two - both in Stockport.


Mirrlees GC was a company owned 9-hole course which was maintained for the benefit of employees of the Mirrlees Blackstone diesel engine factory. Membership was also open to local golfers, and my grandfather was a member in his retirement years. I played there with him many times in my youth.


It closed in the late 80s when the company was taken over by a German firm and they planned to sell the course for housing. Planning approval was rejected however, and the course lies there overgrown to this day - still visibly a golf course but frequented only by local dog walkers. Very sad - it was a good 9-hole course with plenty of history, being the original home of the prestigious Stockport Golf Club.


Moorend golf course came into being during the boom years of the 90s. I remember a bloke coming into my furniture shop and dropping into the conversation that he was building a golf course on his farm.  A few months later, without the benefit of any planning consent, he opened for business! He had literally built a 9-hole course himself with his tractor.


Very soon, queues were forming every Saturday morning as local blue collar golfers flocked to play a dreadful boggy course. This was at a time when golf clubs were still unwelcoming to such visitors and in an area unserved by any municipal course Moorend did spectacularly well for a while. A driving range followed soon after and my farmer friend bought a Rolls-Royce.


How times change! In our area the same members' clubs who carefully kept out the riff-raff 20 years ago are now giving golf away at a tenner a round to all and sundry in a desperate bid to balance the books. Moorend was squeezed out by over-supply, diminishing demand, and plummeting prices. The range remains but the course closed a year or so ago.


The final nail came when a major road project , 50 years in the planning but continually postponed, finally came to fruition. It is currently nearing completion and goes right through Moorend Golf Course. The farmer as a consequence has upgraded his Rolls-Royce.


It's almost as if he'd planned it all along!  ;D











« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 09:47:11 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2018, 10:17:30 AM »
Just realized that I need to add Riddell's Bay to my list.   :'(
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Edward Glidewell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2018, 10:31:09 AM »
Marsh Harbour (Calabash, NC)
Ocean Harbour (Calabash, NC)
Heather Glen (Little River, SC)
Angel's Trace North (Sunset Beach, NC)
Angel's Trace South (Sunset Beach, NC)
Fox Run/Barrington Hall Country Club (Macon, GA)
Durham Lakes Golf and Country Club (Fairburn, GA)


The five on the Grand Strand were all perfectly fine courses (I know Tom Doak hated Heather Glen, but while it was definitely not a favorite of mine, I never minded playing there), and Marsh/Ocean Harbour were both better than the majority of courses down there.


The Georgia courses weren't good. Barrington Hall may actually still be open. I know it closed and re-opened multiple times, but the last information I can find about it was in 2015 and it doesn't appear to have a website now, so I assume it's closed. Durham Lakes also may be open -- it closed for a while, then supposedly re-opened (and they do have a website, but it's the same website that existed before the course was closed), but other information says it's still closed. It was a better layout than Barrington Hall and had some pretty good holes, but it's no big loss. There's one more NLE I've played in Georgia but I don't remember the name of it, and it was a horrible course.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 01:37:18 PM by Edward Glidewell »

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2018, 10:54:02 AM »
I was going to bring you to Concord, but you're like a pit bull with AIDS.

I'll send you a video instead.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2018, 11:02:19 AM »
I was going to bring you to Concord, but you're like a pit bull with AIDS.

I'll send you a video instead.

Typhoid Mike, huh?    :P

Considering the state of the industry, I'm thinking a less than 7% closure rate over 47 years is pretty reasonable, but perhaps I just track these things closer than some others.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2018, 11:32:08 AM »
Didn't Montgomeryville morph into Pine something?
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2018, 12:55:27 PM »
El Caro, AZ
Links at Continental Ranch, AZ (mostly)
Vistal, AZ
Centre Hills, CO
Eagle's Nest, CO
Great Sand Dunes, CO
Mira Vista, CO
Emerald River, NV
Coffee Creek, OK


What's the status of The Prince Course on Kauai these days?


ASU Karsten, AZ is soon to be, presumably


Matt Frey, PGA

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2018, 01:02:55 PM »
Out of the 261 golf courses on my "life list," only nine are NLE, a 4.5 percent closure rate.

  • Apple Ridge (Hal Purdy) - Mahwah, New Jersey
  • Hillview (Robert Macke) - Cleves, Ohio
  • Indian Valley (Marion Mendenhall) - Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Island Hills (A.W. Tillinghast) - Sayville, New York
  • Lake Gloria (Unknown) - Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Old Silo (Graham Marsh) - Mount Sterling, Kentucky
  • Orchard Hills (Michael Macke) - Cincinnati, Ohio
  • Tallgrass (Gil Hanse) - Shoreham, New York
  • Weatherwax (Arthur Hills) - Middletown, Ohio

P.S. If anyone knows who laid out Lake Gloria, let me know!

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2018, 02:53:03 PM »
I think The Prince is still in limbo.  There have long been rumors of an ongoing takeover by Japanese interests, and they have been maintaining it during the closure.  I'd say "yet to be NLE."
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Sean Ogle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many NLE courses have you played?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2018, 03:30:06 PM »

23. Half in Oregon
West Hills Hoyt Park, Pleasant Valley, Orenco Woods, Neahkahnie, Top O'Scott, Veterans Memorial, Colwood Natl.,
Bandon (hickory), McKenzie River



Pete, I had no idea there was a golf course in the West Hills. Do you happen to know of any other resources or information on it?


Also, was bummed to see McKenzie close recently. Tokatee is might be the best hidden gem in the State, so often stopped by for 9 on my way up river.

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