How many NLE courses have you played?

[Chris_Blakely]

This is a bit of a depressing exercise.  I have played (at least) 25...
 
Links at Shirley (NY)
Tallgrass (NY)
IBM CC (NY)
Calverton Links (NY)
Lost Canyons - Shadow (CA)
Lost Canyons - Sky (CA)
San Luis Rey Downs (CA)
Salt Creek/Auld Course (CA)
Escondido CC (CA)
Fallbrook GC (CA)
Kauai Lagoons - Mokihana (HI)
Bridgeview GC (OH)
Riviera GC (OH)
Shamrock GC (OH)
Winding Hollow (OH)
Mountain Manor - Blue/Yellow (PA)
Mountain Manor - Orange/Silver (PA)
Mountain Manor - Red/White (PA)
Bloody Point (SC)
Melrose (SC)
Wild Wing - Wood Stork (SC)
Wild Wing - Falcon (SC)
Wild Wing - Hummingbird (SC)
Island Green (SC)
Regent Park (SC)
 
There are a few whose status I'm not sure of (e.g. Princeville - Prince, ASU Karsten) and some I am not sure whether they are really considered NLE (e.g. Sea Pines Ocean and Sea Marsh, Pinehurst #4).

Which IBM CC in NY closed?  I'm thinking of the RTJ one in Poughkeepsie, NY (Casperkill) or the John Van Kleek one in Johnson City, NY.


thanks,
Chris

[Chris_Blakely]

Great idea for a topic.  I have played over 100 courses that are not NLE, several I played after technically being NLE:

Annapolis Roads GC, Annapolis, MD
Atwood Lake Resort, OH
Aurora GC Aurora, OH Bert Way course
Astorhurst GC, OH Harold Paddock course
Beech Tree GC Aberdeen, MD
Brandywine CC – 9-hole course, Maumee, OH sold portion of 18 hole course to Andersons Company
Brandywine GC, Championshiop Course Peninsula, OH
Brandywine GC, Par 3, Peninsula, OH

Bald Mountain GC Lake Orion, MI Wilfrid Rein & William Connellan course
Balsams Resort – Panorama Course, Dixville Notch, NH Donald Ross Course
Brigadoon GC Red / Blue / White 27 holes Grant, MI
Blue Heron Pines - East
Blue Heron GC Riverview, Medina, OH John Robinson course
Blue Heron GC Highlands / Lakes Medina, OH John Robinson course
Bowling Green State University GC (Forrest Creascon GC)
Buck Run GC, OH
Cannon Ridge GC, Fredericksburg, VA solid Dean Beman / Bobby Weed course closed for housing
Carradam GC, Irwin, Pa James Harrison course sold for housing
Carter Caves State Park GC, KY Hal Purdy course, Kentucky state parks closed all 9 hole courses but on
The Casement Club, OH closed as a result of extreme flood damage
Castle Shannon GC Steubenville, OH Gary Grandstaff course on very hilly terrain
Churchill Valley CC Pittsburgh, PA Emil Loeffler and John McGlynn course
Coolridge GC, Mansfield, OH 9-hole course opened in 20’s
Concord – Monster, NY
Concord – International, NY
Crooked Creek GC, Belmont, OH
Deer Run CC Cincinnati, OH Mike Macke course sold for housing
Diamond Back GC Canfield, OH John Robinson new 9 holes renovated 9
Eagle Beach GC, Alanson, MI 9-hole course by Larry Mancour
Eagle Creek GC, Otsego, MI 9-hole course opened in 1922
Elk Ridge GC, Atlanta, MI Jerry Mathews course sold for private hunting preserve
Elm GC, Athens, OH 9 hole course built in 1920
Four Seasons Resort, Pembine, WI W.D. Mann course built in 1924
Forestburgh CC, NY
General Butler State Park GC, Carrollton, KY Hal Purdy course
Glenn Shores GC, South Haven, MI; 9-hole course built in 20's

Grandview GC, Middlefield, OH Hugh Johnson original 9 opened 1927
Green Hills GC, Kent, OH Leonard Macomber 9 Hole course
Green Hills GC, PA Robert White course
Harlem Valley GC, NY
Hershey CC – Hershey Hotel GC Maurice McCarthy course
Hershey CC – Parkview Maurice McCarthy course
The Harbor Club, Ashtabula, OH Bert Way course great terrain with elevation changes built in and around old river beds
Hawthorn Hills GC Regulation Course Lima, OH Harold Paddock course
Hawthorn Hills GC Short Course Lima, OH Harold Paddock course
Hawthorne Valley GC, Solon, OH
Hickory Grove GC, Harpster, OH
Hickory Sticks GC, Saline, MI
High Pointe GC, Traverse City, MI
The Highlands CC, Grand Rapids, MI Donald Ross course
Highlands CC, Pittsburgh, PA Emil Loeffler and John McGlynn course on rambunctious terrain
Hilltop GC, Coshockton, OH built 1927
Kent State University GC, Kent, OH front 9 build in the 20’s
King Mountain GC, PA Ferdinand Garbin course
 Kincaid Lake State Park, KY Lester George 9-hole course
La Fontaine GC, Huntington, IN Harry B Smead course opened in 1929, course had wild built up greens similar to Langford & Moreau
Lisbon Village CC, Lisbon, NH very good Ralph Barton 9-hole course with terrific green locations
Maplewood GC, Kent, OH built in 1927
Mason GC, Tecumseh, MI
Minerva Lake GC, Columbus, OH opened 1932
Mount Pocono, PA
Nevele Grand, NY
Fallsview, NY
Oakland Hills CC, Bryan, OH
Oak Knolls GC, Kent, OH
Oakmont East Pittsburgh, PA Loeffler / McGlynn
Old Silo GC, KY Graham Marsh course
Peek n Peak Lower course, Ferdinand Garbin course
The Phoenix GL, Columbus, OH Tim Nugent course build on landfill, see interview with Dr. Michael Hurdzan talks about this course
Pocono Manor – West Course
Pound ridge GV, NY replaced by Pete dye course
Purdue Ackerman Hills, West Lafayette, IN Pete Dye course replaced Bill Diddel course
River’s Edge GC Industry, PA 9-hole course opened in 1929
The Rose Leroy, MI
Rogell GC, Detroit, MI Donald Ross course
Rolling Hills GC, Milan, MI
Royal New Kent GC, VA
Rustic Hills GC, Medina, OH
Sanctuary (loch Ledge) Yorktown heights, ny
Seneca GC, B Course, Cleveland, OH built in 30’s
Shamrock GC, Slippery Rock, PA 9 hole Ferdinand Garbin course
Sheltowee Trail GC, Morehead, KY Chris Chrissman 9-hole course
Silo Ridge GC Amenia, NY Al Zikorus course replaced by Fazio private course
Sims Oak Hills GC, Middlebury, IN Bill Diddel course
Skiline G & Ski Grayling, MI John Robinson course opened 9 holes for golf for a year, cleared another nine, but never finished.
Skyland GC Hinckley, OH
Snyder Park GC, Springfield, OH built in 20’s may be Alex Nipper Campbell course
South Haven GC, South Haven, MI Original 9 holes by Tom Bendelow; very good, hilly terrain

South Shore GC, Momence, IL
Stonehouse GC, VA
The Tamaracks, MI short course
Tallgrass GC, NY
Tamaron CC Toledo, OH solid Harold Weber design favorite course in Toledo to play
Tam O'Shanter - Hills; Canton, OH Leonard Macomber course
Tam O'Shanter - Dales; Dales, OH Leonard Macomber course
Thomas Carvel CC, Pine Plains, NY William Mitchell Course
Thornapple Creek GC Kalamazoo, MI
Thunder Hill GC, Madison, OH built on old fish hatchery very difficult course with 152 slope
Thunder Hill GC, short course
Weatherwax GC (Woodside / Meadows) Middletown, OH Art Hills course
Weatherwax GC (Valley View / Highlands) Middletown, OH
Whiteford Valley GC, Ottawa Lake, MI 36 holes closed
Whiskey Run GC, Quaker City, OH
Wicked Woods GC, Newbury, OH
Willow Creek GC, Walkerville, MI
The Winchendon School GC, Winchendon, MA Donald Ross course
Wolf Run GC, IN
Winding Hollow GC, New Albany, OH Art Hills course
Yarrow G & Conference Center Augusta, MI Ray Hearn course became metal health facility
9-hole estate course near Claverack, NY
I will add more as I think of them and that was quite sad.
Chris

[Brad Tufts]

I didn't put The Balsams on my list as it hopes to re-open if the revival gets funding, and I think it's been minimally-maintained in the years since the resort closed.

[Chris_Blakely]

I didn't put The Balsams on my list as it hopes to re-open if the revival gets funding, and I think it's been minimally-maintained in the years since the resort closed.

They have been saying it will reopen for many years now.


Additionally, their website only has Ross' plan.


I hope it reopens, but am not optimistic.


Thanks,


Chris

[MCirba]

Chris,


I believe the former IBM course in Johnson City is still open under a different name.


***EDIT*** Confirmed.  https://www.traditionshotelandspa.com/m/experience/golf

[Brian Finn]

This is a bit of a depressing exercise.  I have played (at least) 25...
 
Links at Shirley (NY)
Tallgrass (NY)
IBM CC (NY)
Calverton Links (NY)
Lost Canyons - Shadow (CA)
Lost Canyons - Sky (CA)
San Luis Rey Downs (CA)
Salt Creek/Auld Course (CA)
Escondido CC (CA)
Fallbrook GC (CA)
Kauai Lagoons - Mokihana (HI)
Bridgeview GC (OH)
Riviera GC (OH)
Shamrock GC (OH)
Winding Hollow (OH)
Mountain Manor - Blue/Yellow (PA)
Mountain Manor - Orange/Silver (PA)
Mountain Manor - Red/White (PA)
Bloody Point (SC)
Melrose (SC)
Wild Wing - Wood Stork (SC)
Wild Wing - Falcon (SC)
Wild Wing - Hummingbird (SC)
Island Green (SC)
Regent Park (SC)
 
There are a few whose status I'm not sure of (e.g. Princeville - Prince, ASU Karsten) and some I am not sure whether they are really considered NLE (e.g. Sea Pines Ocean and Sea Marsh, Pinehurst #4).

Which IBM CC in NY closed?  I'm thinking of the RTJ one in Poughkeepsie, NY (Casperkill) or the John Van Kleek one in Johnson City, NY.


thanks,
Chris

I was talking about the IBM CC in Sands Point on LI. Of course, that really probably belonged in my questionable list, since The Village Club was built there. I'm just not sure if Tom Doak and team used the same routing, etc for the existing 9 holes.  Perhaps if he sees this he can comment.

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris,


I believe the former IBM course in Johnson City is still open under a different name.


***EDIT*** Confirmed.  https://www.traditionshotelandspa.com/m/experience/golf

Mike


I have played the Van Kleek course in Johnson City and this was the one I thought Brian was referring to. I didn't know about God course at Sands Point.


When I played the course linked by you it had the same name.


Chris

[Dave McCollum]

I didn't read this thread.  Saw where somebody said this was a great thread.  I find it depressing on several levels.  I'm never much interested in threads that ask "how many courses have you played?" or "your last ten" or whatever. These treads seem like boasting.  I can't imagine people having this conversation over a drink after a round.  Some guy bragging about how many courses he's played seems like a real bore alert.  I'll concede it helps to understand a poster's opinions if you have a glance at his bio, but that's usually fairly clear by the quality of the content.  Now we're comparing NLE's like trophy hunters who bagged endangered species before they were listed and hunting was banned.  Besides the tragic element that some dreamer lost his dream, is it not a little weird to say one got there before he expired?  Perhaps we're maybe talking about architecture in a few cases.  It mostly seems like we're talking about business and, for the most part, the unpleasant collision of a grand and good vision with the economic reality of market forces. 


Good that all of you gave your support to these golf courses before they went under.  It just seems more appropriate to toast the dead more respectfully than this way.  Here in Idaho on the old sheep stations with their pioneer graveyards, we climb the hill at sunset, deliver a speech or toast for newcomers, and spill a wee dram on their graves.  The significance is in the silence and the sunset.         

[Chris_Blakely]

I have never posted on the last ten thread (at least I don't think I have).


I have never posted on the how many courses have you played thread.


I decided to post on this thread because to me, Mike had a good idea and it made me go back and look to see how many of these I have played.  I also thought people may have been interested in some of the courses I have played that are nle.  Variety is the spice of life and I enjoy playing new golf courses.  I do this not to trophy hunt; rather, I do this because I enjoy it.


Again, to me this was not boasting just a way to note the courses I have played that are nle.  Obviously I tried to help them by paying for all of my rounds.


Many of the courses I played decided to sell for the land value and not because of lack of play.


I most assuredly do not get juxtaposing this thread to the hunting / killing of any animal as no animal was harmed during my golfing of these courses and I have previously stated my motives.


I have always taking the view if I do not like a thread and it doesn't seem harmful or malicious  I ignore it, maybe that's the Ohio in me!


Thanks,
Chris

[MCirba]

Dave,


Great post and I understand your point. 


I think I started this thread thinking...wow, after playing golf for nearly fifty years I am surprised that only 6.5% (since grown a bit) of courses I've played are no more.  Maybe things aren't quite as bleak as we're thinking for the industry.


However, as more and more of the names of the missing have rolled in it has become unmistakably depressing.   I've never played a course I didn't like, even the architecturally questionable ones, so I do think part of my motivation was simply to list an honor roll of the dead.  Please don't mistake that for boastfulness.   

[jeffwarne]

Melrose is NLE?
what's there now?


update:just wow.
Very hard to believe

[Tommy Williamsen]

Well this is a depressing thread. I have played about 1500 courses. I did a quick inventory of my own NLEs and came up with about 25.

[Stewart Abramson]

I didn't read this thread.  Saw where somebody said this was a great thread.  I find it depressing on several levels.  I'm never much interested in threads that ask "how many courses have you played?" or "your last ten" or whatever. These treads seem like boasting.  I can't imagine people having this conversation over a drink after a round.  Some guy bragging about how many courses he's played seems like a real bore alert.         

Dave, I did read this thread and didn't get the sense that posters were boasting. It actually made me go through my memories of courses played and think about which are now gone and why. Some are missed and some are not. I can see golfers having conversations after rounds discussing what's happened to courses they've played. I've had  those conversations about Beechtree, Sugarloaf and others. There are several interesting threads on this board about courses that are now NLE and others that are threatened, such as San Geronimo, Sharp Park.  It's not so hard for me to imagine those conversations leading to a walk through  of reminiscences of NLE courses. That doesn't strike me as strange or bragging.

[Dave McCollum]

I shouldn't have posted my gripe.  I ignored the thread for days and didn't read it except to skim through and see how many courses there were.  Sorry I said anything.  If I found the discussion depressing, that's my problem. 

[MCirba]

Dave,


It's ok.  I thought you had very interesting perspective and certainly a passion for the subject. Thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate it.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mike,


I'm adding Melrose in SC to my list too. I enjoyed the boat ride as much as the golf course. It's had money problems from the beginning:
https://www.postandcourier.com/business/bankrupt-south-carolina-coastal-resort-goes-back-to-the-lender/article_57387336-8d8c-11e7-a341-df7ceb701a86.html


I'm also adding Melrose in Philly to my list of NLE potentials. I've heard rumblings from those in the know.

[jeffwarne]

Mike,


I'm adding Melrose in SC to my list too. I enjoyed the boat ride as much as the golf course. It's had money problems from the beginning:
https://www.postandcourier.com/business/bankrupt-south-carolina-coastal-resort-goes-back-to-the-lender/article_57387336-8d8c-11e7-a341-df7ceb701a86.html


I'm also adding Melrose in Philly to my list of NLE potentials. I've heard rumblings from those in the know.

Melrose was a very good course in a great setting.
Centerlline bunkers-fun, finish along the coast
Since this is a boasting thread ...I won a shootout there by eagleing the 18th hole...ironically by winning a long drive contest(a huge upset) on the 17th hole to get back in the shootout-using the original Big Bertha (which wasn't very big)

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Jeff,


Wasn't there a center line tree  too at Melrose? I enjoyed the course as well.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Actually, I find this thread interesting. There are some NLEs that I thought would be safe. I knew courses were closing, just not as many I have played or loved.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,


Wasn't there a center line tree  too at Melrose? I enjoyed the course as well.

Senior moment-maybe on 18? had alternate fairway for sure and maybe a trees but definitely bunkers-I have a framed picture my host gave me commemorating the event-have to dig it out

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's the 18th @ Melrose:


https://www.pga.com/south-carolina-tourism-hole-12

[Chris_Blakely]

Dave, I did read this thread and didn't get the sense that posters were boasting. It actually made me go through my memories of courses played and think about which are now gone and why. Some are missed and some are not. I can see golfers having conversations after rounds discussing what's happened to courses they've played. I've had  those conversations about Beechtree, Sugarloaf and others. There are several interesting threads on this board about courses that are now NLE and others that are threatened, such as San Geronimo, Sharp Park.  It's not so hard for me to imagine those conversations leading to a walk through  of reminiscences of NLE courses. That doesn't strike me as strange or bragging.



Stewart


This is exactly what sums up my effort in going through the ones I have played.  I have talked with my brother and friends and still can not come up with several of the ones in NY we played.


It was a fun trip down memory lane.
 Thanks
Chris

[Stewart Abramson]

Stewart

This is exactly what sums up my effort in going through the ones I have played.  I have talked with my brother and friends and still can not come up with several of the ones in NY we played.

It was a fun trip down memory lane.
 Thanks
Chris

A few NY NLE's that I have played that I don't think have been mentioned  are Loch Ledge, Canyon Club and Kutshers.


Loch Ledge, located in Yorktown Hts, NY,  was a horrible course, but in the mid 1990's when I first started playing it was the only place in the NYC metro area that one could almost always get a weekend tee time. It was referred to as Rock Ledge by many. It was very tight with lots of rock outcroppings. My brother had his only hole-in one there on a skulled 4 iron. I love that I  have  great memories of a not so great course.

[Andy Shulman]

RE: Royal New Kent, this is a few months old, but it sounds like the course is in limbo, but not "permanently" closed.


https://richmondbizsense.com/2018/02/20/local-golf-club-contract-two-sister-courses-closed-now/


My list includes the popular Beechtree, Oakwood CC in the Cleveland suburbs and Astorhurst GC, also near Cleveland, which - if I recall correctly - once featured a small gondola that transported golfers up a steep hill between the 1st and 2nd holes.

[Pete_Pittock]

A  really interesting course that many of us have played - Mike Young's Long Shadow. Nothing wrong with the course, just built at the wrong time. Need to fill in another notch (25).