News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Steve Kupfer

  • Karma: +0/-0

From Newsday


At Shinnecock Hills, the staff was presented with the equivalent of the bar exam, having been asked by the U.S. Golf Association last year to remove wide swaths of fairway grass on 14 holes and roll in thousands of yards of fescue rough. In the USGA’s estimation, the venerable club in Southampton passed with flying colors.

“They did it almost overnight,” said Mike Davis, CEO of the USGA. “As someone at the club said, it was like a military exercise. When all is said and done, it looks tremendous. It fits your eye because these are the appropriate grasses.”

The purpose of the massive project, which was completed in a week late in September, was to make the fairways narrower for the Open June 14-17. Those target areas still will be wider than they were for the previous three Opens in the modern era — in 1986, 1995 and 2004 — but slimmer than they had been after the club’s recent restoration project.

“Some of the fairways had gone to 60 yards wide. It was great fun to play,” Davis said, adding that the average width had been 26 yards in 2004. “What we’ve done is come back and say, ‘You know what? You’re going to have to tighten it up some because accuracy is part of the test.’ ”

It became a priority last summer for USGA officials, who saw that the spacious proportions of Erin Hills, a first-time Open course in Wisconsin, were no match for today’s pros. So, the association got Shinnecock to agree on a plan that seemed as ambitious as moving heaven and earth. Literally, there was a lot of the latter.

Shinnecock Hills superintendent Jon Jennings said three contractors were hired, bringing nearly 100 workers at a time to the property. “Delea Sod Farms used a big roll harvester to cut the sod, roll it up and position it off to the side,” he said of the Long Island firm. “We actually saved a great deal of the fairway sod. It’s presently in New Jersey, being taken care of, so if we want to put it back in fairways, in places where it was narrowed, we have the option to do that.”

LaBar Golf Renovations, a New Jersey-based turf specialty company, put the new sod in place. Leibold Irrigation, which has offices throughout the country, worked side-by-side with the other groups.

“It was not only moving the fairways, it was adjusting the sprinklers as well. When you narrow a fairway area, you have sprinklers on the outside, throwing out to the native rough areas,” Jennings said. “It was a massive undertaking. It was really a well coordinated effort from everyone.”

Some of the fescue that serves as the new rough was taken from the par-3 course on the property. Other large patches were transplanted from parts of the main course that are scheduled to be covered by corporate or service tents during the Open.

A reasonable person might ask why they had to go through all of the trouble. If they wanted more rough, why not just let the fairway grass grow higher along the sides? Darin Bevard, director of championship agronomy for the USGA, said that greenskeepers have done just that at Shoal Creek in Alabama, site of this year’s U.S. Women’s Open. But there, he said, the fairways and rough are similar. “You just let the Bermuda grass grow taller and it works out great,” he said.

Trying to do that with the combination of poa annua, bent grass and rye grass that compose Shinnecock’s fairways would create a condition that would be beyond brutal. “If you grow that to two inches, you almost can’t get a club through it,” Bevard said. “It’s so thick and matted because it grows almost as much sideways as it does up.”

Fescue, in contrast, is wispier. Jennings said, “It presents more of a progressive penalty, meaning the deeper into the rough you go, the harder it is to get out.”

Making golfers try to avoid the rough is part of the new, and old, tactical philosophy at Shinnecock. Davis said that the membership has made a major effort in recent years to restore the feel of the course that architect William Flynn built in the late 1920s, after Suffolk County extended Sunrise Highway through the layout that had hosted the 1896 U.S. Open.

Jennings said, “William Flynn’s architectural design is based on angles: hitting angles off the tee into the fairway and then off the fairway into the green. The work by Mike and the USGA, where we brought the fairways in, really accentuated the angles and makes them more robust. It brings features back into play that might have been lost in the modern game, based on how long people are hitting the golf ball these days.

“People are going to come out here and they will see a golf course that they’ve never seen before,” the superintendent said. “It is going to show the best it has ever shown for the championships.”

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
What a crock of shit.


The USGA didn't like the low scores at a windless Erin Hills so Mike Davis decides he knows more about William Flynn's design principals than Coore & Crenshaw and they waste an incredible amount of money on narrowing fairways and native areas to make the golf course tougher.


For the amount of money that they spent on that one project the USGA could have renovated an entire municipal golf course somewhere. It's so unbelievably wasteful. All in the name of getting the final score from -10 to par.  ::)
H.P.S.

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
This piece lays out the argument for bifurcation better than most.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Not sure I can top PCCraig's opening line as it's perfect...


The phrases "knee jerk"(pun intended) and justifying existence come to mind..


Had a discussion about this Sunday (pre show) with my Radio guest Guy Yocum.
Guy noted that the USGA had consistently gotten it wrong multiple times in the past 5-6 years-plus the last Shinny debacle.
He bought all their latest crap hook, line and sinker...and told me how perfect the setup was going to be...
I was shocked that such a respected student of history and knowledgeable writer could be swayed by their line of BS so easily-and I suggested that they were simply on track to do too much again and added "maybe for once they could just play the course they selected" rather than all the manipulation that they fail so woefully at every year.


What really cracks me up is not allowing the current fairway grass to simply grow up because it would be "too brutal". Seriously? So leave it at 2 inches!(or whatever isn't "brutal")-Have you looked next door at Southampton or NGLA-or any other course with similar rough/fairways? and you can set the mower height to any cut your manipulation heart desires (and of course changing it the week  of when players complain)
I really have no problem with the fescue being there now as it can be cut to any height, but I have a real problem with the fact that the USGA felt the need to do something...on the heels of a multi year renovation doing the exact opposite... and the lack of considering how completely unsustainable of an example the USGA constantly sets for other clubs.


Amazing to me how many inputs and how much labor and cost that organization puts in and demands to find conditions I find weekly at Goat Hill or any other cash strapped muni.



"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
First time I’ve ever heard someone try to justify that narrowing fairways actually helps accentuate the angles.

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
I agree with everyone that it's crazy to spend all that money to bring fescue in instead of just letting the fairway grow to 2" or whatever the appropriate height is.


How about the fairway width though? I understand that width makes the game more interesting and enjoyable, but this is the US Open. Tee shot accuracy should be a critical test in the US Open and I don't think it's a test with 40-60 yard wide fairways. In my opinion, it's not fair to the accurate hitters to have fairways that wide. I understand that you can have a bad angle from the fairway, but when long hitters have 3 clubs shorter than short hitters and they both are in the fairway, over the course of 4 rounds I'll take the long hitters to get it closer to the hole than the short hitters on average.


Considering the US Open is trying to determine who the best players are, does anyone think the US Open should have 40-60 yard wide fairways because it's a better test of skill than 30-40 yard wide fairways?

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Slightly altering mowing lines to place a premium on accuracy is one thing, tearing up turf and changing grasses is another.  The width, firm playing conditions and wind are what make Shinnecock come to life.  If they can't play the course close to the architect's intent, there are plenty of generic courses they can go to that can play 7700 yards and have 28 yard wide fairways.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
First time I’ve ever heard someone try to justify that narrowing fairways actually helps accentuate the angles.

Ally

That caught my eye as well but do you know, there's a certain logic to it. Lets just say the ideal spot off the tee for the next shot is 5 yards in from the rough, however instead of rough you had a bunker, would you not say that was strategic in the sense that the safe play up the middle gives a poorer angle than say a shot to the side ?

The other quote was on Flynn's design intent. I'd be interested to know what width the fairways were when Flynn built the course. Anyone know ?

Niall

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
another gem
Poa, rye and bent rough you "can't hardly get a club through"
and they cite bermuda (in the summer no less) as a grass that works better (presumably at getting a club through)


you really can't make this stuff up
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Peter Pallotta

I was thinking of 1984 -- the Orwell novel, not the year

Top-level golf administration must be a very small circle of insiders -- and surprisingly C&C aren't it in, or at least don't seem to be.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
This piece lays out the argument for bifurcation better than most.


+100  What an absurdity this whole debacle is...

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Open had already been awarded to them when the request/ demand was made.  Would have been interesting if they would have just declined to modify it. 

Will Spivey

  • Karma: +0/-0



+100. Just say no.



The Open had already been awarded to them when the request/ demand was made.  Would have been interesting if they would have just declined to modify it.

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0



+100. Just say no.



The Open had already been awarded to them when the request/ demand was made.  Would have been interesting if they would have just declined to modify it.




I'm not sure they wanted to say no. Members and the maintenance crew takes pride when their course proves to be a challenge to the best players in the world. I don't think anyone wants to see their home course get inundated with low scores. Golfers are masochists and if they struggle to get around their course, they want to see everyone struggle.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 03:12:51 PM by Eric LeFante »

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
The USGA could have saved a LOT of money if they had adopted the Augusta strategy of dotting the vast open spaces with strategic conifers to confuse the competitors.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm not a Mike Davis fan.  This is like a VERY small group of amateur golfers who gravitated towards USGA golf jobs controlling the setup of the national open, sitting how can we screw with these guys?  I remember Mike Davis even saying 2 years ago they were going to use slightly undulated tee boxes at Chambers Bay I believe, although they ended up not doing it.  What this tricked up setup is doing is artificially raising the scores which will cover up the fact the ball flies too far, period. IMO.

"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
another gem
Poa, rye and bent rough you "can't hardly get a club through"
and they cite bermuda (in the summer no less) as a grass that works better (presumably at getting a club through)


you really can't make this stuff up


To be fair, the bermuda part says it is easier when rough and fairway are the same grass...


Question. Do any of the neighboring courses have fescue fairways? If the fescue roughs grow relatively well, I wonder if fine fescues would not offer a more versatile solution, allowing them to grow or mow them down as needed.




Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Justin Thomas did remark that he and Rickie shot the easiest 65s ever in their practice round last year, with the caveat that it was soft and slow.  That was after the narrowing was scheduled, but before it was implemented. 


There have been so many 63s in majors lately.  I'm sure that nobody wants to be the first to give up a 62, especially in a US Open. 

James Reader

  • Karma: +0/-0
Didn’t the Open get there first last year? Brandon Grace shot 62.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Life would be simpler, although we would have less to discuss, if the USGA just made Winged Foot the permanent home of the US Open. 


Ira





Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm sure that nobody wants to be the first to give up a 62, especially in a US Open.

If US Track and Field didn't want high jumpers to clear 7' they would have put in sand take off pits. The best golfers in the world should be shooting scores that the average golfer could not comprehend ever shooting.
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jay is correct.  The only way the average golfer will ever understand how really good these guys are is to see what they would shoot on the same course the average guy plays.  When these courses are altered for th Open and then a guy comes back and plays it in normal conditions and tries to compare to the Open scores...well....it doesn't work.     So many guys are fooled intot hinking they are much closer to the tour pro, score wise, than they really are...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
another gem
Poa, rye and bent rough you "can't hardly get a club through"
and they cite bermuda (in the summer no less) as a grass that works better (presumably at getting a club through)


you really can't make this stuff up


To be fair, the bermuda part says it is easier when rough and fairway are the same grass...




The rough and the fairway ARE (or WERE) the same grass...until they brought in the fescue.
My quibble is I've NEVER EVER heard anone say rye/poa/bent roughs were tough to get a club through compared to bermuda.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Despite the idiocy of the USGA, its the Shinny members who went along with all this stuff so blame them first and foremost.  Hey, its their course...our decision should really be about lending support to the USGA or not. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Which course that hosts the US Open on a regular or semi-regular basis (e.g. Oakmont, Pebble, Pinehurst, Bethpage(?), etc) is typically altered the least as part of the preparation for hosting? And how likely is it that the "average guy" ever plays that course? When we talk about the "average guy" in a conversation like this, do we mean the average guy with access to Shinnecock, Merion and Oakmont?


Personally, I agree with the view that today's top players are in no way shape or form related to the average guy. They should play a different course.