Elevated Greens

[Joel Pear]

I really like elevated greens.  I think they add an element to the game.  My old club, Aurora Country Club, in Aurora IL, had a couple of them.  The 3rd hole had a an elevated green that sloped severely back to front.  The 15th was also elevated, and picking a club for them was always a challenge.


My favorite elevated green, though, is number 9 at Shinnecock Hills.  That really is a fun second shot.  Anyone else have any favorites?

[Tom_Doak]

What do you mean by "elevated green" ?  Usually, I reserve that term for a green that has been artificially built up from its surroundings.  But your example of the 9th at Shinnecock sounds more like you are just talking about a big uphill approach shot.

[Joel Pear]

That would be more accurate, Tom.  I was thinking of uphill shots where you really can’t see the surface of the green, and it makes a difference in club selection.

[Ted Sirbaugh]

I'm a big fan of #3 at Somerset Hills and think it's one of the more underrated holes there. Though the green is (relatively speaking) one of the less severe on the course, it has a lot of subtle movement. It's a large green, but there's a small false front that will send balls back into the bunker at the bottom of the hill... makes for a frightening approach shot

[Jeff_Brauer]

I was touring my new project in East TX with some raters and reporters.  Even before we got in the cart, one of them mentioned (and the others nodded) "I sure hope you don't have any uphill approach shots where the green surface is blind".


That, of course, was mantra of pros as long as I can remember.  Even the Golden Age guys suggested that a blind tee shot might be okay, if required by the land, but blind approaches were verboten, nearly at all costs.  By the JN era, a visible green was one you could see the base of the pin on your approach shot, nothing less.  And, with some questions, these guys said that is what they meant - they wanted to see the base of the pin on the approach shot.


Obviously, that mentality is alive and well, although I suspect here on Golf Club Atlas, that "design rule" is presumed to have been relaxed.  My recent experience above reinforced for me that, no, it isn't.  Is any POV 100% right? Of course not, and the land still rules, dictating that some greens will be uphill and thus blind. 


Since green surfaces tend to tip to the front at 2% or so, that is the max uphill a hole can be and still see the green, i.e., green can be 2 yards/6 feet above LZ from 100 yards out, 3 yards/9 feet above LZ if from 150 yards, etc.  I usually check it from a catch basin/low spot in the general LZ area.  If it is uphill more than that, I often use a bunker front left and right, spaced to about the outside edge of the green to mark the surface for the player, even if they can only see the top of the flag.  Might flare up the back edge or dip the front lip with a false front to enhance vision to at least give a visual clue as to the width dimension of the green, since that is what the players want to know - how far from the edge is a tucked, blind pin?


Just saying.....

[Steve Lang]

   Jeff,


Where in east TX, Piney Woods, NE?  Certainly aren't many hills at all in SE TX, unless you push em up...

[Jeff_Brauer]

  Jeff,


Where in east TX, Piney Woods, NE?  Certainly aren't many hills at all in SE TX, unless you push em up...

Gladewater/Liberty City, just north of I 20 and Kilgore.  The former Southern Hills golf course, but we created 12 new holes on some unused property.  If you didn't know better, you might think you were playing golf in NC or Atlanta.  Opens later this year.

[Jon Wiggett]

I guess RDGC is the poster child for elevated greens with a fabulous set of them. Each one is individually excellent but taken as a whole the golf can become a bit jaded. Other than that the 5th at the King's Course, Gleneagles is a fabulous green complex.


Jon

[Sean_A]

Uphill approach shots are quite difficult to pull off well and keep varied.  This is one of the big problems with hilly courses.  Too often it seems to me, uphill shots are too long and/or abruptly steep.  They really give a huge advantage to long, high ball hitters, which is why I prefer the more runway type uphill holes.  These offer scope for the long run-up shot rather than forcing a carry over bunkers, rough or having such steep grade that a run-up won't work. The development of the more modern green complex starting with the early great archies is where we start to see a prepondance of taking the long run-up with a more gradual grade out of play with a more measured and forced approach.

Ciao 

[Niall C]

I guess RDGC is the poster child for elevated greens with a fabulous set of them. Each one is individually excellent but taken as a whole the golf can become a bit jaded. Other than that the 5th at the King's Course, Gleneagles is a fabulous green complex.


Jon

Jon

As you know, that's my main gripe with RDGC, too many plateau greens. Some of the internal contours on them are very good but often there's no real visual perspective.

Where I think it is done well, is on the 3rd and 18th at my old club at Lossiemouth. Both have slope at the front which helps with perspective. It also helps that they are the only ones on the course apart from perhaps the 12th which has a not too abrupt slope up to it.

Another good examples is the par 5 on the back nine at Duff house Royal. Similar green complex to the one at Renaissance that was done away with when they made the new holes, which is a shame because I really liked that hole.

Niall

[Rick Lane]

At my course, Brooklawn in CT, there are a number of elevated greens on the hilly site.  Knowing what was there beforehand, and the slight tweaks made by Tillinghast in 1929 is very interesting:

3rd hole, he pulled the tee and the green both back toward the golfer by about 30 yards, making a 225 yard drive (in 1929) stay on the bottom of a hill on a flat lie, leaving 160, but also angling the green from front right to back left, such that the right side of the fairway is preferred, or else a very deep greenside bunker on the left is in your line.   For players trying to overpower the hole, it is even more critical to find a small spot on the right side of the hill, as most everything else will come back down and left, putting the deepest bunker in play. 

13th hole, he made a 425 yard, slight dogleg, uphill par 4 (in 1929!), (again pulling tee and green back 30 yards or so) and with the second shots back in the day being 200+ yards, made a green that is open in front with a type of punchbowl in the back, to catch low running shots and funnel them back to the middle of the green.   Players have mid to short irons today, but if you mishit your drive, you will likely be playing the type of shot Tillie envisioned, a low runner.   

[Eric LeFante]

I'm a big fan of #3 at Somerset Hills and think it's one of the more underrated holes there. Though the green is (relatively speaking) one of the less severe on the course, it has a lot of subtle movement. It's a large green, but there's a small false front that will send balls back into the bunker at the bottom of the hill... makes for a frightening approach shot

What really makes that hole in my opinion is the diagonal ridge in the fairway. The fairway is very wide but the ridge separates the left and right side of it. The right side of the fairway is about 6 feet below the left side and the angle into the green is tougher from the right, making the approach from the right play longer and tougher than the left. It really adds interest to a hole with a 50+ yard wide fairway.