How to make courses tougher for pros – without lengthening or altering

[Jim Nugent]

 Two things (for pro tournament golf only):  1) Ban all yardage guides, notes and maps of any kind;  2) No caddies.

The first means players won't know exact distances.  They won't know if the putt they face breaks 1 foot or 1.5 feet.  They'll have to use their judgment more.  Besides raising scores a bit, this turns them less into automatons.

The second means they don't have a guiding hand during tournaments, that gives them counsel and helps keep them on an even keel.  They're on their own.  They can either carry (which would spell the end of the age of monster bags) or pull a trolley.  This will also add more an element of endurance to tournament golf.

Chances of these getting implemented are somewhere between slim and zero, but I bet they would make courses more competitive, without having to alter or butcher them in any way.

Edited for formatting. 

[Bruce Katona]

Have them putt on the greens most of us mere mortals play on; slower and somewhat inconsistent in speed and have the sand in the green-side bunkers vary in consistency.....

[Cal Seifert]

I agree that those maps of the contours of the greens should be banned.  Not quite sure I agree with taking away caddies.  The caddie player relationship is an important part of the game.

[John Kavanaugh]

Cut the number of players who get their card and full playing privileges from 125 to 50. Then issue them all uniforms, equipment and balls so the endorsement money dries up. Have them wear masks like mexican wrestlers so we can't see their faces. In other words, make them drive from tournament to tournament and sleep in their cars. Win or go hungry…That's the ticket.

[Edward Glidewell]

I agree that those maps of the contours of the greens should be banned.  Not quite sure I agree with taking away caddies.  The caddie player relationship is an important part of the game.

I could be wrong, but isn't this a relatively recent phenomenon? I think it's only been in the last 30 or so years that guys have had full-time caddies who carry their bag every week and are part of the decision making process, etc. I know ANGC only allowed players to bring in their own caddies (as opposed to using the ones on ANGC staff) sometime in the 1980s.


Regardless, I don't like seeing professional players do whatever their caddie tells them to do in tournaments. Spieth seems to rely heavily on his caddie, for one. I think that takes away part of the game.

[Kalen Braley]

Eliminate Drivers and Tees.

[Peter Flory]

The caddie thing is a little funny when you really think about it.  These are grown men and professional athletes out there.  But they can't even carry their own tools of the trade or make up their own mind about which club to hit?   Then consider that these guys are making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for their players. 


What do you think would be the indifference point with strokes for a player to go without a caddie in a tour event?  e.g. would Jordan Spieth elect to carry his own bag if he were given a 1 stroke per round credit? 

[Niall C]

  The caddie player relationship is an important part of the [/font]game.

No it's not. It detracts from the game. The decision process and working things out for yourself are important parts of the game. Someone telling you what to do isn't.

Niall

[Jeff_Brauer]

I was struck by Reed and his caddie doing separate match calculations and then comparing notes.  While I couldn't tell, I imagined it was 146 yards, 24 yards uphill, 12 MPH wind, downhill lie, whatever, etc., so add X to effective yardage.  Figure in front hazard, back kick plate, where to miss, etc. (using 18 as example)


Many hate that here, but that is what it has come to, every generation adding tech to the old Jack Nicklaus yardage book.


In reality, Kalen could be right.  Limit and redesign drivers as 3 Woods to effectively negate length.  Would be a lot easier than regulating golf balls.  That said, the winning score this year is in line with Hogan in 1953, Nicklaus, Woods, Speith.  Would be even easier just to put big wind machines all over the place, as well as a dome to make sure rains didn't get the greens softer.

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,


Part of Reeds caddie situation is also that he hired his wifes brother with zero caddie experience...


Given he seems to piss off so many people, maybe he couldn't find a real caddie to work with him! 

[Michael Wolf]

You are required to take a caddy on the PGA Tour. If it were not a requirement I think you'd see at least a few younger guys carrying their own to save some money. You'd certainly see it on the Web.


Without length or equipment changes, aren't we back to slope and firmness as the best defenses? Psychologically, pushing greens and landing areas tighter up against OB has a big effect. S&D is a killer they avoid at all costs.


And for the life of me I don't know why bunkers are raked. It seems like such an easy, zero cost, immediate way to better test skill and at same time return game to it's roots.

[Jeff Evagues]

I think Speith is a fine player but I'm not sure he can tie his shoes without consulting with his caddie.

[Peter Pallotta]

Maybe instead of limiting length/distance we should encourage it.
Bone dry and tightly mowed fairways, with no rough -- just 'one cut' all the way to the trees. Let them bomb away off the tee, and let the ball roll a long way on landing -- so that slightly too much of a draw or too much of a fade, and/or the wrong shot-shape for the fairway contour, will have the shot rolling away from the preferred approach angle and sometimes into big trouble.
The best/most confident drivers will still have an advantage; the
shorter hitters will be able to keep up better than ever (like Tom Watson did at 59 at The Open); and the wayward drivers and/or those choking coming down the stretch will have a real choice to make re dialling back off the tee.

[Thomas Dai]

“Without lengthening or altering”, so no changes to courses or the the ball. Um....how about -


A much lower limit on the number of clubs that can be carried - Alister MacKenzie advocated only 6! - and you don’t need a caddy if you’ve only got a few clubs in a small bag
A limit on maximum clubhead loft - say 50*
Unraked bunkers
Time penalties for slow play


That’ll do for starters.


Atb

[Bruce Bearer]

How about just have a different card for the pros vs. members/locals where short par 5's are changed to par 4's.  Augusta could be played as a par 68 or 69? 


It would be the same as having a card for Ladies vs. a card for men where the par for Ladies is sometimes 73, 74, 75???


Is there real magic to having a certain number of par 5's?  TOC has 3 par 3's and 2 par 5's.  It's a par 72 that for the pros should be par 70. Or 69.


Why not?

[Carl Rogers]

The new Women's Am at ANGC may offer some guidance on this subject. 

[Blake Conant]

Have green contour books made anyone a better putter since introduced?  If there's data proving otherwise I'd be happy to eat crow, but I just don't think they make much of a difference. 


My thought is reduce the number of clubs to 9 or 10, and switch back to wooden woods, or at least 300CC drivers.  Guys will have to choose to keep all their wedges or get rid of some irons and be in between clubs more often. 

[Morgan Clawson]

Bill Coore answered a question similar to this on Andy Johnson's Fried Egg Podcast (Episode 60 I think.  Possibly Episode 59.  Both are highly recommended). 

Bill thought that making holes shorter rather than longer for the pros was a key to making them more difficult.  It's counterintuitive, but makes total sense when you think about it.  Take away the pro's ability to hit a straight 300+ yard drive and you make it harder.  It brings club selection and hitting to specific targets part of the equation.

The 3rd hole at Augusta is a nice example.  At 350 yards, it's the shortest par 4 on the course by 100+ yards.  Due to it's complexities,  hitting driver is not the automatic choice.  The average score this year was 3.93 per my quick calculation, and the historical average is 4.08 per The Masters app.

[Jim Nugent]

The 3rd hole at Augusta is a nice example.  At 350 yards, it's the shortest par 4 on the course by 100+ yards.  Due to it's complexities,  hitting driver is not the automatic choice.  The average score this year was 3.93 per my quick calculation, and the historical average is 4.08 per The Masters app.

I'm guessing that makes it one of the easiest par 4s on the course, if not the easiest.  Maybe the question is, would it be easier if it were longer?  Pretty unusual if so.   

 

Have green contour books made anyone a better putter since introduced?  If there's data proving otherwise I'd be happy to eat crow, but I just don't think they make much of a difference. 

I have no data.  The players themselves think it makes a difference.  Otherwise they wouldn't use it.  Same with all the other aid(e)s they have at their disposal. 

[Eric LeFante]

Bill Coore answered a question similar to this on Andy Johnson's Fried Egg Podcast (Episode 60 I think.  Possibly Episode 59.  Both are highly recommended). 

Bill thought that making holes shorter rather than longer for the pros was a key to making them more difficult.  It's counterintuitive, but makes total sense when you think about it.  Take away the pro's ability to hit a straight 300+ yard drive and you make it harder.  It brings club selection and hitting to specific targets part of the equation.

The 3rd hole at Augusta is a nice example.  At 350 yards, it's the shortest par 4 on the course by 100+ yards.  Due to it's complexities,  hitting driver is not the automatic choice.  The average score this year was 3.93 per my quick calculation, and the historical average is 4.08 per The Masters app.

I'm looking forward to the Byron Nelson at Trinity Forest this year to see if Bill Coore's theory about making courses shorter proves correct. I agree that making courses shorter takes the long hitters advantage away vs the short hitters. I don't agree that it makes it more difficult.


The 3rd hole at Augusta is a fantastic hole and I think every course should have at least 1 or 2 short par 4s, but the game of golf is about variety. We can't have golf courses where the majority of par 4s are an iron off the tee and a wedge into the green. I don't think it would be fun to watch or play a course like that. The 3rd hole at Augusta is statistically and historically the easiest par 4 on the course.

We've watched how to make courses tougher besides lengthening at the US Open for the past 20 years.....narrow the fairways, grow the rough, and make the greens too fast for the slopes on them. All of these options make the game less fun and more unfair.

[jeffwarne]

I think Speith is a fine player but I'm not sure he can tie his shoes without consulting with his caddie.

Tie "their" shoes


ick-at least get the stupid mikes off them which normalize such slow play activity

[Edward Glidewell]

Tie "their" shoes


ick-at least get the stupid mikes off them which normalize such slow play activity

That's one of my favorite things about Rory. He has to be one of the fastest players out there.


I had a friend at the 2016 Masters when Rory and Spieth were paired together, and he said that by the back nine Rory would hit his shot (the few times he was playing first) and then immediately walk to the green, and was sometimes standing waiting near the green for a minute or two before time Spieth was even ready to play his shot.

[Jeff Schley]

I think Speith is a fine player but I'm not sure he can tie his shoes without consulting with his caddie.

While I admit he is slow now with this caddie, he excelled as a amateur as well by either carrying his own bag or having family do it.

In 2009 and 2011, Spieth won the U.S. Junior Amateur and joined Tiger Woods as the tournament's only two-time winners.[9]

Before turning 18 in July 2011, he was No. 1 in the AJGA Golf Rankings, which promotes the best junior golfers in the world.[10]

He finished second in the 2008 and 2009 Junior PGA Championship.[11] The American Junior Golf Association named him the Rolex Junior Player of the Year in 2009.[12]

Spieth accepted an exemption to play in the PGA Tour's HP Byron Nelson Championship in 2010. It was the event's first amateur exemption since 1995.[13] The tournament's previous exemptions had included Trip Kuehne in 1995, Justin Leonard, and Woods in 1993.[13] He made the cut, becoming the sixth-youngest player to make the cut at a PGA Tour event.[14] Spieth was tied for seventh place after the third round, and finished the tournament in a tie for 16th place.[15] He was offered another exemption into the tournament in 2011, when he again made the cut and finished in a tie for 32nd.[16]

Spieth played college golf at the University of Texas.[17] Spieth was a member of the 2011 Walker Cup team and played in three of the four rounds; he halved his foursomes match and won both singles matches.[18]

In his freshman year at Texas, Spieth won three events and led the team in scoring average.[19] He helped his team win the NCAA championship, was named to the All-Big 12 Team, Big 12 Freshman of the Year and Player of the Year, and was a first-team All-American.[20][21]

In 2012, Spieth earned a spot as an alternate in the U.S. Open after Brandt Snedeker withdrew from the tournament;[20] he tied for 21st and was the low amateur.[22] He became the number one amateur in the World Amateur Golf Ranking after his performance in the U.S. Open and Patrick Cantlay's decision to turn professional.[23]

[Sean_A]

I don't think it makes a course harder, in fact I think it makes a course easier, but perception is everything.  Shorten yardage some and reduce par a load.  If Augusta had only two par 5s, the winning score is -7.  All the 5s are reachable in two for most.  Shorten the yardage of a few and maybe call them all par 4s.  Lets face it, its not as if Augusta explores the 100-125, 275-325 or 350-425 yardage ranges at all.  Why not go a step further if folks are worried about "low" scores"?


Ciao

[Jim Nugent]

And for the life of me I don't know why bunkers are raked. It seems like such an easy, zero cost, immediate way to better test skill and at same time return game to it's roots.

I bet the reason is randomness and howls of unfairness.