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noonan

Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« on: April 08, 2018, 11:13:37 PM »
Spieth's drive could have hit the fairway if he cut it. Should they trim back the trees on the left?
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mike_beene

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 12:53:47 AM »
Jerry, watch out, it looks like a guy named Jordan Speith hacked your account.
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Mark Chaplin

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 01:56:46 AM »
Jerry shouldn’t Spieth have cut the ball like everyone else?
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Cave Nil Vino

Garland Bayley

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2018, 02:13:18 AM »
Jerry,

Why the Spieth concern? I thought you were a Rory devotee.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Peter Flory

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2018, 02:53:43 AM »
That was a pretty disappointing end to his attempt to break the all time major single round scoring record. 
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Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2018, 07:04:28 AM »
Peter not a very realistic chance though, eagles on 18 are pretty rare. A birdie would have tied the all time major record but it would have been a course record.
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Cave Nil Vino

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2018, 07:08:41 AM »
Don't remember any other players hitting the trees.  Jordan's yip with the driver seems to be a pull - remember Hartford last year.
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Chris Roselle

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2018, 08:10:58 AM »
Quote from: Jerry Kluger on April 09, 2018, 07:08:41 AM
Don't remember any other players hitting the trees.  Jordan's yip with the driver seems to be a pull - remember Hartford last year.


Jordan did it twice this week!!!  Seems like the issue is more the player...
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JESII

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2018, 08:17:20 AM »
If only it were fairway for another 10 yards left he would have been fine, all weekend...
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Eric LeFante

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2018, 09:03:27 AM »
Quote from: Jerry Kessler on April 08, 2018, 11:13:37 PM
Spieth's drive could have hit the fairway if he cut it. Should they trim back the trees on the left?


Yes I think they should. Hard to think of another hole of that length with that narrow of a chute off the tee.
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Carl Rogers

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2018, 09:08:01 AM »
I would vote for cutting all those trees on the left of 18 tee way way back. Always give the golfer a recovery shot.
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JESII

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2018, 09:10:44 AM »
Always?


How about all the trees on the right?
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Jason Topp

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2018, 09:48:24 AM »
The chute looks really narrow but it seems pretty rare for a pro to clip a tree.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2018, 10:01:25 AM »

I don't mind the narrow chutes, but then, my first courses were Medinah, where they were all narrow, and one of my favorite holes was 7 on the No. 1 course, with a similar narrow chute.  Starting the ball straight off the tee is a shot type, too.


But it is surprising how many good players think its a terrible design feature.  Of course, many of them (more who hook than fade) tend to dislike any feature that stops them from playing their preferred shot pattern. 
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Jeff Schley

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2018, 11:38:04 AM »
I really like having one hole like this tunnel vision where you demand a cut or a straight ball at least.  It isn't every hole and having this on 18 adds to the theater and drama.  Keep the tunnel.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2018, 11:57:00 AM »
Mildly OT, but did they move the bunkers back again?  Seems like they were hitting drivers and coming up just short. Thought they were 290-310, and even with no roll on the uphill slope, seems like they would carry that far.....if they missed a tree. :P
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2018, 12:21:08 PM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on April 09, 2018, 11:57:00 AM
Mildly OT, but did they move the bunkers back again?  Seems like they were hitting drivers and coming up just short. Thought they were 290-310, and even with no roll on the uphill slope, seems like they would carry that far.....if they missed a tree. :P


I think some of them were hitting 3 woods -- plus it was colder than usual in Augusta this weekend, so that plus the rain may have made the difference?
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2018, 01:10:12 PM »

Just re-watched on of Geoff Shack's pre-tourney videos, and the front of the bunker is 300 off the tee, the back is 360 yards, and I doubt many carry much past 300 on an uphill shot.  I know they moved them out from the tee to 300 for JN, and then once again  several years back.


I always liked how the narrow chute and their placement required a fade off the tee, or perhaps a layup short.  Again, if this weren't the Masters and just a regular PGA Tour event, my guess is the forced tee shot pattern would be roundly criticized.  It may be quietly critiqued since it affect Spieth the way it did.  Of course, the argument that course design shouldn't negatively affect score will be a hard one to make (doesn't stop tour players from trying, though!) ;)
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2018, 01:25:54 PM »
Its not the trees on the left in the chute that are the problem, its the trees on the right.
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Alex Miller

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2018, 01:37:33 PM »
Quote from: Jason Topp on April 09, 2018, 09:48:24 AM
The chute looks really narrow but it seems pretty rare for a pro to clip a tree.


Agreed - I think both of Jordan's misses were the worst of the tournament... coincidence that it's the same guy?


With the Eisenhower tree gone it's the only really challenging drive left in the last few holes and a great test for an eventual champ. I loved watching Spieth make his run but didn't think the course was at fault for the slip up!  :)
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Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2018, 01:53:12 PM »
What would Alister MacKenzie and Bobby Jones do?  They would take trees out.


It is terrible architecture.  Vertical hazards are gimmicks.  So many other ways to "protect and make the hole challenging."

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Ed Homsey

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2018, 01:55:20 PM »
I like that chute.  Helps create a terrific closing hole.  With all his meticulous preparation, I am certain that Jordan had some awareness of the dangers lurking if you tried to hit a fade on that hole.  He took the risk and paid for it.  A bad execution.  Leave the hole as is.  But, why hasn't the Eisenhower tree been replaced?
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Ted Sturges

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2018, 01:59:51 PM »
Quote from: Lynn_Shackelford on April 09, 2018, 01:53:12 PM
What would Alister MacKenzie and Bobby Jones do?  They would take trees out.


It is terrible architecture.  Vertical hazards are gimmicks.  So many other ways to "protect and make the hole challenging."




Totally agree Lynn!
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2018, 02:13:07 PM »
With the Eisenhower tree (also on the left) gone something has to take its place.  Maybe they need limb job, not a removal. I'm sure ANGC will look at it.
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John Kavanaugh

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Re: Is 18 at AGNC too narrow off the tee?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2018, 02:15:40 PM »
The helicopter fade won the tournament. Has anyone else invented a new shot to go on and win the Masters since Ray Floyd and his five wood?
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