[Thomas Dai]

The UK has a whole bunch of fabulous courses by a variety of architects or combinations of architects probably including God.


If you were sending someone to the U.K. in 2018 to study course architecture but they could only visit 10 courses which 10 courses would you suggest they see?


Would all these courses be biggies and highly rated courses or would there be some smaller gems, rural & rustics, 9-holers etc included?


We’re not talking golf tourism here, we’re talking studying the architecture and the best 10 courses to learn from.


Which 10?


Atb

[Tommy Williamsen]

There are obvious courses like The Old Course. I Would look for variety. Links courses, I study Dornoch, St. Enodoc, Rye, Sandwich. I'd send him to Sunningdale and Walton Heath. I might suggest some of the lesser known courses like Saunton to see what the difference between the two are. I might let him look at some "failures" to see what didn't work.

[Tom_Doak]

Well the first three are easy


St Andrews
Prestwick
North Berwick


A lot of courses could go in the middle, but I'd probably leave room at the end for Askernish, a modern course where nothing was built, and either Kingsbarns or Castle Stuart, where everything was built.

[Sean_A]

It depends on who I was sending to the UK, but for the average guy with little experience of GB&I I would probably go with something like

North Berwick
Prestwick
TOC________________Chance to see six of the most iconic and influential holes on the planet
Ganton_________inland links
Sandwich_______championship golf, funk and playability are not mutually exclusive
Deal_________great greens
Sunny Old__________Colt & Willie Park magic in the park
WHO__________proper heathland
Portrush________Colt by the sea
St Enodoc________just because 

Obviously some other courses could easily be used and if asked the question in a month I would probably answer differently.

Ciao

[Wayne_Kozun]

St Andrews, North Berwick and Prestwick would have to be on the list.  I would also suggest Cruden Bay and Brora for some experience of quirkiness and a simpler form of golf in some ways.  Expanding from the UK to include the Republic of Ireland I would add Lahinch and Ballybunion.

[Mark Pearce]

An awful lot of links courses on peoples lists.  Is there nothing to learn about architecture from the heathlands, downlands and parkland courses in the UK.  If there are already 6 or 7 links on your list, does it really need a 7th or 8th?

[Bill Gayne]

Study Muirfield for the routing and Royal County Down for the bunkering. I would say study Machrihanish but I maybe saying because I love the golf course.

[Ira Fishman]

Thomas,


You initiated this thread several months too late. We booked our first visit to the UK already. Golspie, Brora, RD, Nairn, Castle Stuart, St. George’s Hill, Swinley Forest, and Woking are the order of play.


Thank goodness for GCA.


Ira

[Sean_A]

An awful lot of links courses on peoples lists.  Is there nothing to learn about architecture from the heathlands, downlands and parkland courses in the UK.  If there are already 6 or 7 links on your list, does it really need a 7th or 8th?

Mark

To be fair, GB&I is most famous for its links so it makes sense that links dominate the lists. Plus, the London heathlands are much of a muchness with a few outliers. 

I am very happy that choosing where to play isn't about studying design as there are so many cool courses that would be neglected.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

1. TOC as the original poster child for GCA.
2. NB for the use of contours and quirky hazards.
3 Kilspindie on how to get the maximum out of a tiny area.
4 Boat of Garten an example of good, solid, simple inland GCA
5 Ogden an example of very good Moorland golf
6 Alwoodley on how to get more from the entirety than the sum of its parts
7 Ganton for its uniqueness and undoubted potential
8. Golspie showing how to mix different styles on the same course
9. Muirfield for the routing and bunkering
10Abernethy to show what should be built more often today

[Thomas Dai]

Interesting thoughts so far. Please keep them coming.


TOC would be difficult to exclude.......maybe I should have specified TOC plus 10 others! Never mind.


Mark makes a good point about studying not just links but variety.


Which would be the best examples of the heathlands, downlands, moorland, hilltops, etc to study? I like Toms point about newbies like Castle Stuart and Kingsbarns.


What about some that are still essentially yee olde in style, such as the likes of RND/Westward Ho! or RWN/Brancaster? Toms mention of Askernish is interesting here.


Golspie has been mentioned a couple of times. Interesting choice, three courses in one....links and heathland with a bit of inland as well.


What about some of James Braids lessors, the rural and rustic ones, say a Perranporth or a Welshpool?


Or what I might term "the oddities", yee olde courses that show you can play golf pretty much anywhere if you really wish to (hint - P.......k)

Somewhere on clay not sand?

Or categorise studying by architect....God, Morris, Park, Colt, Fowler, MacKenzie, Braid etc etc?

atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

Interesting that no one has chosen any modern courses. In other words, no one has chosen courses where a lot of earth movement took place (aside from one mention of Castle Stuart). You’ll learn of lot about architecture by studying the creation of a new course, both good and bad.


Of the old classics,  I also think it’s important to choose a few courses where a great set of greens were manufactured, not just found: Woking for sure. Portrush for Colt. County Louth for Simpson.

[Mike_Clayton]

Royal Ashdown Forest to see what's possible without bunkers.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Old
NB
Prestwick
Royal worlington and Newmarket
Royal ashdown forest - nice suggestion mike


Muirfield
Rye
Castle Stuart
Walton Heath
Swinley Forest


11 would be Brora

[Dan Gallaway]

Musselburgh?  Or is it just historic?

[Richard Fisher]

As this thread isn't just 'where do we most like to play?' but 'where can we see architecturally interesting and significant work?' (the two are, of course, related) I would suggest the following: the slight inland emphasis is deliberate, inasmuch as I have an old-fashioned view that the best golfing ground is by the sea, and architects have to show their stuff rather more when working inland...

The Old Course
Westward Ho! (for having, as Ran says, the greatest variety of hazard on any British golf course)
Prestwick or Brancaster
Hoylake or Muirfield (for what you can do away from significant dunescape)

Woking
Sunningdale Old and New
Huntercombe
The Sacred Nine
Swinley Forest
Cavendish or Reddish Vale

(and of that inland cluster only Sunny New is  longer than 6500 yards off the medal tees)

which covers a nice spread both of course types and of architects (Fowler, Park, Dr Mac, Colt, Dunn etc etc).

You couldn't help but be made to think, and think hard, about Henry Longhurst's classic golfing question  'exactly what am I trying to do here?' at each or any of these courses.

[Jim Nugent]

St. Enodoc for wild, out-of-the-box design features.

Westward Ho for lumpy fairways.

Pennard for quirk and fantastic land use.

Old Head for trying to jam too much into a potentially great site with limited space. 

[Thomas Dai]

Interesting angle about newer courses and earth moving.
Bunkerless courses......like it.


What about learning from mistakes.....things that have not worked out as well as hoped, ie gone wrong?


atb

[Mike_Clayton]

Thomas


You could go and see any of the 'modern' courses built in the 1980s which all were all replicas of what was being built in America.

[Garland Bayley]

Not a UK expert, but I can suggest a few.
Mulranny - Simply natural, but yet exciting. Plus, fast greens are not necessary.
Carne - Greatness with little cost.
Contrast between Royal North Devon and nearby Saunton East. Livestock keeps golf fun vs. lack of livestock can turn it into drudgery.
Perranporth for sure crazy fun.
Portstewart front 9 and Dunluce for great holes in great dunes.

Somehow you must experience links fun. I guess experience is the best teacher. For the experience, I suggest Tenby, Pennard, West Cornwall, St. Enodoc, Bude and North Cornwall, Strandhill, Narin and Portnoo, Portsalon.

[Sean_A]

If I was sending someone to GB&I with more experience and savy then the regular joe, my list would concentrate more on economy of design, how to use hills well and keeping overall yardage low.

Kington & Welshpool for hilly designs, Painswck as well but more for economy of design

Cavendish, Swinley Forest & Formby Ladies as great examples of keeping yardage very low and still creating courses which engage the better players.

Perrranporth & Pennard for great examples of quirk which can play totally differently depending on wind.

Huntercombe as an example of creating exciting golf at grade level.

Castle Stuart as a great example of a manufactured links.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Huntercombe as an example of creating exciting golf at grade level.

Not sure about that.  Isn't Huntercombe almost the poster boy for artificiality as a good thing?

[Sean Walsh]

Mark,


Huntercombe was going to be my pick for exactly that reason. If you described it to me I would have thought it was a “what not to do” of Architecture but somehow it works. I think it may be that the artificiality is so blatant and doesn’t attempt to apologise for its presence.


I personally came away from there wondering why the artificiality didn’t jar. There is definitely something to learn from that. I’m just not sure what it is. I once saw a plan the Line Mortensen had done for a course and it had some very distinct stuff because of the peculiarities of the site it was on. If i had not seen Huntercombe before that I would have balked at the visual.


That said if you were to attempt something similar today be prepared for the bricks headed your way. You would have to have a lot of courage in your convictions to attempt such a thing.

[Adam Lawrence]

Huntercombe as an example of creating exciting golf at grade level.

Not sure about that.  Isn't Huntercombe almost the poster boy for artificiality as a good thing?

I don't see that your two comments are contradictory

[Mark Pearce]

Huntercombe was going to be my pick for exactly that reason. If you described it to me I would have thought it was a “what not to do” of Architecture but somehow it works. I think it may be that the artificiality is so blatant and doesn’t attempt to apologise for its presence.

Sean,


I don't suppose you got to Kington whilst you were here?  Similar use of artificial mounding around greens.  It really shouldn't work but it's brilliant.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()