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Marty Bonnar

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What’s the very least you would/could do?
« on: March 25, 2018, 06:40:44 PM »
I’m suddenly interested in a daft scenario, I hope folks might want to chime in on.
So, suppose a local-to-you Course called and asked you for your opinion on one hole.
The hole in question is (and this is crucial!) a dead flat 160yd par 3, to a dead flat, unbunkered, circular-shaped green.
It gets worse. There’s no great view to exploit. There’s no natural or artificial features to bring interest. Of course, there’s NO budget.
Here’s the rub. What SINGLE(!) thing would you advise them to do?
It might be bomb the golf hole. It might be do nothing.
I know it’s a stupid premise and, honestly, it’s not a real scenario, but if you’ve a thought please chip in.
I have an idea or two, but I’ll hold them off until folks opine (if they do!)
Cheers,
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Cal Seifert

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2018, 06:45:33 PM »
I would advise them to get the money for bunker construction and install one bunker in front of the green such as the one in this picture from the Hamburger golf club course review. It inspires strategy and if they truly have NO budget then they truly cannot make a change anyways. 
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2018, 06:56:14 PM »
That’s a very nice first thought, Cal.
I’d disagree about the budget thing, but we’ll get to that later!
Interesting that a new bunker is the first option. I’ll bet that might bring a few of the lurkers out!
Cheers,
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Christian Newton

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2018, 07:07:51 PM »
Given that there is little money, and nothing organic of interest, I'd make the tee shot blind. Build a narrow berm and let it go high with grass--whatever makes sense with the rest of the course or surrounds.

This is exemplified by the first par-3 at Rustic Canyon (no. 4); they added in a cresent-shaped berm with high grass (and a bunker) that occluded about two thirds of the green, complicating the look. The already-complicated green was not impacted, to my knowledge.

Cheers,
Christian
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2018, 08:17:58 PM »
Nice, Christian.
Kind of a penal lump of ground in the way of the player?
Cool, and a very cost-effective solution.
Maybe a little one-dimensional though? (Only one option: get over the mound or death?)
Like it...
F.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 08:19:51 PM by Marty Bonnar »
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Sean_A

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2018, 08:33:46 PM »
Not knowing what things cost...my first thought was to scrape out some land shy of the green. 

Ciao
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2018, 08:42:09 PM »
Quote from: Sean_A on March 25, 2018, 08:33:46 PM
Not knowing what things cost...my first thought was to scrape out some land shy of the green. 

Ciao


There’s no dosh, Sean. Any earthmoving would have to be voluntary. That’s fine of course...
I do like the idea of a bit of shaping, though.
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ira Fishman

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2018, 09:06:43 PM »
Send out a flock of sheep. And then be patient.


Ira
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Bret Lawrence

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2018, 09:53:17 PM »
I'd advise them to hire a professional golf architect. That's the least I could do.
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Stan Dodd

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2018, 10:57:05 PM »
A simple bump of grass ala 13 at Pacific Grove Muni.  You could mow it short for bouncey stuff or grow it longer for rough like recovery shots.
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V. Kmetz

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2018, 10:59:26 PM »
If I could add no more material to the site and only had labor cost to work with...


  • I'd make the green into a thinner longer rectangle so it could be reasonably pinned at 135 and 175...
  • I'd scrape away and transfer some fill from one side (depending on which direction the hole points and where the natural drainage is) of the new green margins to create a smaller berm of the type Christian referenced, some 10 yards in front of the other side from which I drew it.
  • I don't know what size the tee is, but I'd shift it over to the that side and likely, make it fatter and wider out of the same sq. ft.

cheers  vk


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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Colin Macqueen

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2018, 12:27:43 AM »
Marty,


I would get out the local golfing yokels and a tiny wee dozer and sculpt lots of small interconnected swales and bumps in front and front-side of the green so that a ball running short had a multitude of choices as it headed towards the green itself. Interest at low cost and low maintenance.


Cheers Col
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Adam Lawrence

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2018, 03:27:01 AM »
If it's absolutely dead flat, how does it drain?
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Adam Lawrence

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Niall C

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2018, 05:58:46 AM »
Quote from: Adam Lawrence on March 26, 2018, 03:27:01 AM
If it's absolutely dead flat, how does it drain?

Down the way ?
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Ian Galbraith

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2018, 06:55:49 AM »
If the budget really is zero, all you have to play with is cutting the grass or not. So I'd let the rough grow up for 50 yards in front of the green on the right hand side and also up the right side of the green. Then you can tuck the pin on the RHS for some risk reward choice. Next year I'd swap left and right to get some variety.


The third year I'd move club to somewhere else.. :)

[size=78%] [/size]

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Mike Hendren

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2018, 09:34:20 AM »
I'm with Christian.  How about a 4' berm across the front some twenty yards in front of the green.  The front should be abrupt with the back sloping gradually and maintained at fairway height - ideally to propel a ball that lands short to traverse the green and wind up in some short grass beyond the putting surface.  If possible, borrow a few feet of short grass from the back of the current green, making it more shallow.  Maybe a little "gate" in the berm to provide a peek. 

Bogey

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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2018, 09:53:17 AM »

As an architect, my first thought would be to decline the commission.  20,000 courses worldwide, 360,000 holes, what's one more or less featureless hole?


Barring that, Michael H suggestion is the most practical, build up two small berms (not high enough to make them blind, no one likes that) which saves drainage costs.  But rather than design it to propel the ball off the back of the green, think of it as creating an alternate way to reach the green with some run out, perhaps a better one than flying it in to the small saucer, which I imagine to be slightly crowned, since most are.
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MikeJones

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2018, 09:54:13 AM »
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Dave Doxey

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2018, 10:23:24 AM »
With no budget, options are limited.  Let the grass grow long behind and to the sides of the green.  Rough length at first, then knee high farther away from the green. Leave it short in front, so as to not penalize high handicappers.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2018, 10:47:26 AM »

Quote from: Dave Doxey on March 26, 2018, 10:23:24 AM
With no budget, options are limited.  Let the grass grow long behind and to the sides of the green.  Rough length at first, then knee high farther away from the green. Leave it short in front, so as to not penalize high handicappers.


Wouldn't you have to consider how that fit in with the rest of the course?
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Kalen Braley

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2018, 11:35:58 AM »
Marty, a bit of clarification.  Is 160 for the everyday tee or the rear tee?  I only ask because a good player will have no trouble flying the ball on the green at 160, but the lesser player will often either be landing just short or on the front of the green which would then beg some undulations for interest...


Could make all the difference in the world of what one is to do....
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2018, 02:49:33 PM »
I think I’m in the ‘fiddling with the length of grass’ camp! There’s so many options and variations that could be achieved with very simple grass management.
The visuals could be great, strategic values altered very easily, good for biodiversity. It’s win, win!
Simple mounds or hollows would come next in value for me, then maybe a thoughtful bunkering scheme.
Thanks for input. Nice to see there’s still a lot of variety of thought around here!
Cheers,
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Alex Miller

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2018, 03:06:06 PM »
Just so people are aware, the berm at rustic was not put in there by choice or because they thought interest was needed - it was earth washed there from the flood which altered other parts of the course as well... They chose to leave it instead of excavating and recreating the front of the green as it was before.


That said, I like the idea!




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Christian Newton

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2018, 06:12:30 PM »
Alex,

Wow—thanks for the background on Rustic. I never played the course before that elaboration and I was lead to believe it was added because the original setup was considered too—something.

Cheers,
Christian
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ward peyronnin

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Re: What’s the very least you would/could do?
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2018, 09:26:16 AM »
The least expensive solution would be to cut three hole locations daily with flagsticks so players could choose which is their target
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