Sheep Ranch and the future use of 5-mile Point

[JC Jones]

JC Jones' signature includes "I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously."

If that means what I think it means, what a hilarious example of unintentional self-parody.

Amen jim,


And I don't get his comments at Doak either....with his body of work he doesn't have anything to prove to anyone, much less be subject to those kind of cheap shots..

Reading is hard.

Apparently writing is hard for you too Jason. Your statement does not actually qualify your top 100 to the Golf Digest top 100. It does indicate that you think Ballyneal wasn't deserving of getting into the Golf Digest top 100, but it does not restrict all other courses to the Golf Digest top 100.

Let's be honest, Doak and Kidd should not be considered.  Neither of them have produced a solo design in the top 100 since Bandon (everyone knows how Ballyneal has manipulated the Golf Digest voting).
...

JC,
Off the top of my head

Tara Iti #6 in the world Golf Digest?
Rock Creek Cattle-#21 Golfweek Modern
Sebonack-DESPITE Nicklaus Top 100 Top 35 at some point
Cape Kidnappers-Top 100 World-Top 20 a some point

Digest Top 100 US.


Sebonack not a solo design.


Tara Iti and Cape Kidnappers: Not US and Ocean


I'm not saying he hasn't designed good courses, he has.

Considering Old Mac and Trails don’t appear on a World ranking, up until a couple of months ago the Golfweek list existed to pay for Brad Klein’s travel (can anyone actually subscribe to Golfweek?) and the Golf US 100 contains every course where Seth Raynor took a dump, there isn’t another list I could possibly be talking about.  Like I said, reading is hard.

[Garland Bayley]

Wow Jason,

Reading, writing, and logic are all challenging for you. How's that lawyering thing working out for you.

[William_G]

lists lists lists

Hanse has had success with BGC despite a near bankruptcy and a reroute...SSB not sure yet...

all 4 at BDGR are top 100 US GD and GW

C&C hit the Grand Slam at SH

Doak has Pacific and Tara Iti

all good with Sheep Ranch as it is yet change is in the air

wish I was at Augusta

cheers

[JC Jones]

Wow Jason,

Reading, writing, and logic are all challenging for you. How's that lawyering thing working out for you.

Quite well, actually.  In part because I understand that ad hominem attacks are not only a logical fallacy but also at the bottom of the hierarchy of disagreement and are the home of those incapable of refuting the central point. 


So, considering you’ve attacked me personally, twice, I know I’ve already won.

[JC Jones]

lists lists lists

Hanse has had success with BGC despite a near bankruptcy and a reroute...SSB not sure yet...

all 4 at BDGR are top 100 US GD and GW

C&C hit the Grand Slam at SH

Doak has Pacific and Tara Iti

all good with Sheep Ranch as it is yet change is in the air

wish I was at Augusta

cheers

Augusta was great.  Next year will we see a return of the man from Eugene?

[Garland Bayley]

Wow Jason,

Reading, writing, and logic are all challenging for you. How's that lawyering thing working out for you.

Quite well, actually.  In part because I understand that ad hominem attacks are not only a logical fallacy but also at the bottom of the hierarchy of disagreement and are the home of those incapable of refuting the central point. 


So, considering you’ve attacked me personally, twice, I know I’ve already won.

So, now you are crying ad hominen attack. Strange considering what you have written.

...
I would love to go through life as angry and as uninformed as you.

ad ho·mi·nem
adverb & adjective
1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Sure looks like you are attacking someone by calling them angry and uninformed. You are not arguing against what they wrote.

...

Reading is hard.

Sure looks like you are attacking someone for being reading challenged. Or, maybe you are trying to point out that they didn't understand what you wrote. A better explanation would be they didn't read your mind, because it appears to me that your writing didn't say what you believe (what was in your mind) it did. And, your explanations of the logic necessary to justify people are not reading you words correctly, fails logically.

...
Considering Old Mac and Trails don’t appear on a World ranking, up until a couple of months ago the Golfweek list existed to pay for Brad Klein’s travel (can anyone actually subscribe to Golfweek?) and the Golf US 100 contains every course where Seth Raynor took a dump, there isn’t another list I could possibly be talking about.  Like I said, reading is hard.

These look like ad hominen attacks on the editors of Golfweek and Golf magazine.

So, using your logic, I win. I used only 2 ad hominen attacks to your 4.

[William_G]

Garland your handicap is higher than JC's so we'll call it even and move on

[JC Jones]

Here is one for you Garland: you're really shitty at this.

• Jim attacked me personally for, apparently, saying Doak should't get the Sheep Ranch re-design (ANGRY) and did so by using lines in my signature he attributed to me (UNINFORMED); therefore addressing what he said.
• Kalen jumped in, echoed Jim, and then said something about Doak not having anything to prove to anyone (which I never said he did) and that I was taking cheap shots at Doak (for stating Bandon differentiates itself for, among other reasons, having all of their courses in the Top 100 and Doak hadn't produced a solo design in the Top 100 since Pac Dunes (go ahead and take a look at the rankings I referenced)).  Hard to read what I said as either a) Doak having anything to prove or b) my comments as cheap shots.

Now you jump in and claim I made ad hominem arguments against the editors of Golf and Golfweek.  First, that's not possible because I'm not in a discussion/disagreement with them.  Second, let's say hypothetically I was, OM and BT not being in the Golf World 100 is a fact and Golf US Top 100 having too much Raynor in it to be taken seriously is an opinion of the ranking, not a personal attack.  Lastly, the rater dues paid by Golfweek raters were used to pay for Brad Klein's travel; another fact. 


So, the best part of all of it is that you defined ad hominem in your post and still didn't apply it correctly.  Like I said, reading is hard.


Oh, and I'd bring whatever it is you do for a living into this but I don't know what you do for a living because I'm not a weirdo who keeps tabs on people on the internet with whom I've never had any interaction. 


And, apparently, you suck at golf.

[William_G]

lists lists lists
Hanse has had success with BGC despite a near bankruptcy and a reroute...SSB not sure yet...
all 4 at BDGR are top 100 US GD and GW
C&C hit the Grand Slam at SH
Doak has Pacific and Tara Iti
all good with Sheep Ranch as it is yet change is in the air

wish I was at Augusta

cheers

Augusta was great.  Next year will we see a return of the man from Eugene?

now that there is a Women's Am, I'll be back next year

but it doesn't suck being in Bandon during the Final Four and Master's week or any week

[JHoulihan]

According to Matt Ginella Twitter account, "They've closed the course to clear gorse for both routing and irrigation questions. Several steps closer to Coore & Crenshaw getting both Coul Links and Sheep Ranch"

[Tom_Doak]

According to Matt Ginella Twitter account, "They've closed the course to clear gorse for both routing and irrigation questions. Several steps closer to Coore & Crenshaw getting both Coul Links and Sheep Ranch"

Well they always close the course about this time of year, so it won't catch fire.


I hope I get to play it again before they tear it up.

[JHoulihan]

Tom,


I as well as many others here are hoping for the same - one last tee time before the bulldozers arrive. Hoped to play before my 2019 trip, but if story holds true my Sheep Ranch round will have to be in my dreams instead.


Justin

[Mark Fedeli]

Regardless of what actually winds up happening, I'm curious to hear some wild ideas from the group about how Bandon could best replicate the current Sheep Ranch experience, yet ensure as many people as possible could get out on it. What would be your ideal compromise between keeping it exactly as it is, and making it a standard 18 hole course?

[MCirba]

Regardless of what actually winds up happening, I'm curious to hear some wild ideas from the group about how Bandon could best replicate the current Sheep Ranch experience, yet ensure as many people as possible could get out on it. What would be your ideal compromise between keeping it exactly as it is, and making it a standard 18 hole course?

Not sure that's possible Mark.

[Jon Wiggett]

Maybe multiple golf courts would be a way.

[Mark Fedeli]

I was thinking you keep the course relatively the same, and do something like selling 2 hour blocks to groups of 8. At a mark-up, of course. And have a couple groups out there at the same time, who just need to be on the lookout for one another (it works at Prairie Club Horse). Might be able to get 100 people out there on a summer day. Not terrible.

[George Freeman]

Sounds like this is moving forward.  From Keith Rhebb's interview on Buffalo Golfer:
"In September, I will help out on the Sheep Ranch project (Coore & Crenshaw) in Bandon, Oregon."

[George Pazin]

...And contrary to what Ari said earlier, there are preferred angles to different pins on each hole.  It may be a wide open playing field, but finding the right spots in that field is important.


Sven

This is surely the most difficult thing for most to notice, especially those who are inclined to one play definitive judgments.

[Joel_Stewart]

I walked the proposed routing a few months ago with Ken Nice and Jay Blasi. I was struck by how windy the site is. My guess is it's 20 percent more windy than Bandon Dunes.


I'm going to be very interested to see what Bill does with this property. He does have quite a few greens sitting on the cliff so it will certainly be photogenic.  As for the holes, I'm told he's trying to draw inspiration from the old course?


Ownership was able to purchase a few extra acres that Bill had requested. The owner of the ocean front property on the far Northern section offered to sell but her price was unreasonable even for this ownership group.


Ownership had hoped to start construction by September but it's been slightly delayed by permitting. 

[Christian Newton]

I got curious about the location of the new land acquisitions—and the relationship between Doak's design and the boundaries of the property. Seems like a new course could run as far into the interior as Old Mac does.

The only public record clue on recently changes I found was the following, dated August 9, 2018, via Coos County Planning Commission:


The current Sheep Ranch covers the yellow region and the plat below. That little panhandle looks no larger than an acre but that must have been the acqusition.

Here's a state topo map with Old Mac for context (http://www.ormap.net/):



The gully that feeds into Whiskey Run is interesting. It's sad to see the unique course go—but the depth of the available land for a more conventional course is exciting.

Cheers,
Christian

PS. I'll be at Bandon this weekend if any fellow GCA are braving the November weather!

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm told that they are under construction.  The club completed a survey for any Indian artifacts and some shaping of greens is either underway or will start in a few days.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I'm told that they are under construction.  The club completed a survey for any Indian artifacts and some shaping of greens is either underway or will start in a few days.

That is really sad.

I wish I had a chance to experience it. I'm sure what they build will be great, but it will always be Bill and Ben's routing, and not the imagination of the lucky few.


I highly recommend listening to Tom Dunne's episode of the McKellar Podcast. He had an absolutely brilliant idea for how it could have simply been adapted to resort circumstances.


... oh yeah, and read his article as well!... but certainly listen to his idea, although its too late now apparently.


RIP

[JC Jones]

I'm told that they are under construction.  The club completed a survey for any Indian artifacts and some shaping of greens is either underway or will start in a few days.

That is really sad.

I wish I had a chance to experience it. I'm sure what they build will be great, but it will always be Bill and Ben's routing, and not the imagination of the lucky few.


I highly recommend listening to Tom Dunne's episode of the McKellar Podcast. He had an absolutely brilliant idea for how it could have simply been adapted to resort circumstances.


... oh yeah, and read his article as well!... but certainly listen to his idea, although its too late now apparently.


RIP

I agree.  What Doak, et al. created for that property was a delight and I'm glad a good friend urged me to get there last year before it would be no longer.


And, I echo your comments on Tom Dunne's article.  I'll have to check out the podcast.

[Steve_Roths]

Is there a link to the article that could be shared?

Thanks.

[Kevin_Reilly]

I believe it is only available in the print issue.  It is well worth it - for that piece and many others.