Silly that 16 at Bay Hill is a par 5.

[John Kavanaugh]

Obviously since we play the same game as the pros, then we should demand that every golf course is maintained to PGA Tour quality standards.....because otherwise, that would be bifurcation if the golfing masses had to play on anything less.

That alone would give most of us another 10% distance on roll thus negating this perceived distance problem. The problem with great conditioning is that it increases play to the point that conditioning deteriorates. It is all these unintended consequences that puts me in favor of sticking with what has worked for 400 years. Or at least the last 50 I have been playing.

[John Kavanaugh]

Sunday I noticed that Bryson DeChambeau was playing a Bridgestone ball. Given that he is the smartest guy on tour I was thinking of giving it a try. Does anyone really believe it will perform differently than any other premium ball?


One ball, one world.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Forget earth moving....they could put in a floating island tee, take a boat ride out to it, while sipping a fully octaned Arnold Palmer!

What is the correct way to "octane" an AP?  Gin?  Rum?  Vodka? Cachaca?  Tequila?

[JESII]

Assume you’re kidding, but since you gave several possibilities, maybe not.  Vodka.

[John Kavanaugh]

Vodka. Why am I debating with people who don't know these things. https://www.ketelone.com/arniesarmy/

[JESII]

Because you’re a masterdebater

[Kalen Braley]

Forget earth moving....they could put in a floating island tee, take a boat ride out to it, while sipping a fully octaned Arnold Palmer!

What is the correct way to "octane" an AP?  Gin?  Rum?  Vodka? Cachaca?  Tequila?

If I know anything about booze....its why limit yourself!  I guess whatever works! 


But I'm guessing Vodka probably provides the best flavor combination...

[John Kavanaugh]

If everyone in the world wants to buy you a drink keep it simple.

[Jim Nugent]

The only reason I ever hit a bad shot it is because of pressure. Based on the people who can't take their range game to the course I don't think I am alone. Some people play better under pressure, they are usually called pros.

So in a casual round, with no special stakes on the line, you could match shot for shot with the top elite players in the world?  That would make your casual golf handicap, what, about +6 or so, playing the tips of the world's hardest courses? 

Or on a driving range you could put on as impressive a display as, say, top players on the PGA Champions Tour? 

[John Kavanaugh]

Yes, if I could play with no pressure I could be a plus 6. Sadly though the pressure of posting 10 scores that low negates the possibility. Yesterday playing alone with my wife is a perfect example. I hit every green but wanted to make a birdie. The pressure of wanting to make a birdie and openly declaring so deteriorated my stroke with each passing green. By the time I reached the ninth I couldn't even get the ball to the hole.

[Kalen Braley]

Yes, if I could play with no pressure I could be a plus 6. Sadly though the pressure of posting 10 scores that low negates the possibility. Yesterday playing alone with my wife is a perfect example. I hit every green but wanted to make a birdie. The pressure of wanting to make a birdie and openly declaring so deteriorated my stroke with each passing green. By the time I reached the ninth I couldn't even get the ball to the hole.

And you disparage High Cappers for being delusional.  You've outdone yourself on this one.     

[Rick Lane]

Assume you’re kidding, but since you gave several possibilities, maybe not.  Vodka.

I believe thats called a John Daly.....

[JESII]

So as not to sullie the King’s branding...

[John Kavanaugh]

A 6th grader heaving and banking in an off the hip 3 pointer is very similar to the delusion of golfers "hitting a shot as good or better than the best players in the world"


I give-I will never mention Freddie's workout again...
if you will save me the visual of you and an 8 foot goal sprawled out in the road.

A perfect example of how we will celebrate a great shot if the ball is bifurcated.


http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh4UuI4a7h8D479kGZ

[jeffwarne]

A perfect example of how we will celebrate a great shot if the ball is bifurcated.


http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh4UuI4a7h8D479kGZ

That's actually a perfect example...
of how today's Touring pro (or D-1 college player) should feel when putting for eagle on the 13 at ANGC or 16 at Bay Hill...or pretty much any par 5 under 575 yards.


and is an excellent example of why dad and kids, and every other credible sport, use bifurcation effectively.(except for this dad)


Incidentally,basketball has gotten unwatchable as there is zero strategy in shooting a 23 footer.
It's as easy as a 10- 20 footer-maybe easier(like a full wedge) and you get 50% more points for the 23 footer so why not shoot it every time? There is no art in the unassisted 23 footer, and it is increasingly common, thoiugh not quite as sickening as 7 footers kicking it out from 4 feet to open shooters at 23 feet.

[Tim Gavrich]

It's amazing the lengths some will go to to complain. Is extended-winter cabin fever to blame?


Wasn't the finish at Bay Hill one of the most interesting on Tour this season?


Players made scores from 3 to 6 on 16, and en route to his win, the greatest driver of the golf ball in this current generation hit a perfect drive that fit into the fairway just so, rewarding him with an easier shot than most of his competitors had.


What a drag...


(Meanwhile, that same great golfer, for whom the game is surely so easy as to be no challenge at all anymore, got beaten in his first match in Austin yesterday.)


What limits would you guys impose on UConn's women's basketball team to make lesser players and teams feel better about themselves?

[John Kavanaugh]

That's easy, you lower the goal at the half where the other team is on offense. Even that probably wouldn't work. The best thing would be to have a draft out of high school thus denying the best players the right to choose where the get an education. Kinda like bifurcation, a governing body deciding who plays how and where. What could possibly go wrong with mandated intervention?

[jeffwarne]

It's amazing the lengths some will go to to complain. Is extended-winter cabin fever to blame?


Wasn't the finish at Bay Hill one of the most interesting on Tour this season?


Players made scores from 3 to 6 on 16, and en route to his win, the greatest driver of the golf ball in this current generation hit a perfect drive that fit into the fairway just so, rewarding him with an easier shot than most of his competitors had.


What a drag...


(Meanwhile, that same great golfer, for whom the game is surely so easy as to be no challenge at all anymore, got beaten in his first match in Austin yesterday.)


What limits would you guys impose on UConn's women's basketball team to make lesser players and teams feel better about themselves?

It's a discussion board Tim...
and the topic is whether 16 at Bay Hil should be a par 4 or par 5...
so I'd say my interjection and John's humor are relevant...
It's not a complaint.


and you are 100% correct that the 16th exposed Tiger's weakness and rewarded Rory's superiority.
It was also a great finish by Rory.
I would argue that Tiger's 2nd place finish a couple of weeks ago was made possible by technolgy rendering Innsbruck no longer a relevant test of driver skill(still a really hard course), and one that can be tiptoed around selectively by a high speed nonelite driver such as Tiger.


When Uconn's women's rivals come out in ProV1 shoes that add 6 inces to their vertical overnight, and then sock optimization gives them another 3 plus another 1/2 inch a year...., and then every competitive b-ball player on the planet has to buy a $1000 pair of shoes and have access to a shoe launch monitor every season to stay relevant, then I'll lead the charge against that...


Rory has a superior skill.Similar in fact to Greg Norman's driving superiority.
IMHO opinion it is diluted on a weekly basis by others using equipmemt to stay near his realm.
Additionally, if they had a ball that went shorter, Tiger would still be wild with his driver, and would be forced to navigate courses he fears driver on with his 245(rather than 275) yard 2 iron while Rory still hit it 300 plus(rather than 330 plus)  with his driver.
Tiger's pefectly of accepting 2 iron-8 iron, but not so sure he'd fare as well with 2 iron-5 or 4 iron.(or he'd adapt)


This is not about penalizing DJ or Rory-it's about rewarding their superior skill and athleticism.(well that and containing the scale of our courses)


The long(especially the confident long) will always be long and should be rewarded-but also separated.


a little like my rant about  superfast slopeless greens where everybody makes their 6 footers-no separation by a good putter.


and yes, it's the 4th noreaster in 3 weeks.......

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,


Given we've beat the hell out of the convo on Bay Hill, may as well continue discussing the NBA 3 point line.  While I agree in principle, I don't think its apples and oranges.


Prior to 5 or so years ago, you maybe had 1-2 good 3 point shooters on your team.  But given what you said in your prior post....teams at the college and pro level are stocking thier teams with 5-7 guys who can all shot the three....including big guys like Kevin Durant. So yes there are far more shots being both attempted and made, but its not without a game plan.  The NBA 5 position has been almost entirely obsoleted, as the successful big men in the league can do far far more than just dunk and get boards..


I wouldn't be opposed to lengthening the NBA three if it means restoring balance with more interior play.  The 3 point line was initially introduced to achieve balance in the other direction, discourage teams from clogging the short stuff and letting em chuck lower % 2s.


P.S.  The art of the 10-15 footer is pretty much all but gone now, unless the guy is wide open.  Its either high percentage dunks, layups, short shots....or 3 balls.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,


Given we've beat the hell out of the convo on Bay Hill, may as well continue discussing the NBA 3 point line.  While I agree in principle, I don't think its apples and oranges.


Prior to 5 or so years ago, you maybe had 1-2 good 3 point shooters on your team.  But given what you said in your prior post....teams at the college and pro level are stocking thier teams with 5-7 guys who can all shot the three....including big guys like Kevin Durant. So yes there are far more shots being both attempted and made, but its not without a game plan.  The NBA 5 position has been almost entirely obsoleted, as the successful big men in the league can do far far more than just dunk and get boards..


I wouldn't be opposed to lengthening the NBA three if it means restoring balance with more interior play.  The 3 point line was initially introduced to achieve balance in the other direction, discourage teams from clogging the short stuff and letting em chuck lower % 2s.


P.S.  The art of the 10-15 footer is pretty much all but gone now, unless the guy is wide open.  Its either high percentage dunks, layups, short shots....or 3 balls.

Kalen,
I really can't comment on the NBA as that to me has been unwatchable for 20 years-with rare exceptions such as San Antonio.


I thnk the 3 point rules makers never thought 3 pointers would become so commonplace.
Go to any High school game now and they fill it up from 3 land also.
teamwork is lost-I mean why waste a pass or do a beautiful pick and roll when you get three for pulling up and letting it fly.
and a mid range jumper is simply bad strategy....


Given that so many can shoot well now (no doubt encouraged by the three point reward)is there really a need to reward it when the shot is really no harder than a 12 footer?
Pistol Pete and the rare guy that could shoot from downtown were devastating to ooponents because nobody did that and there was real risk of missing. Come out on him and he went by you-now even if he does he dishes and the ball comes right back out.
Now 1/3 from 22 feet is the same as 1/2 from 17 feet.


I'm not saying teams don't have strategy-it's just that the strategy sucks to watch-especially at the lower levels where the combustible combination of selfishness and new era strategy collide.


If all shots were 2, you'd see a variety of different scoring plays-though I will agree the three pointer made the shooting skillls possible.


But they shouldn't change on my account as even college bores me now...

[Erik J. Barzeski]

That's actually a perfect example...
of how today's Touring pro (or D-1 college player) should feel when putting for eagle on the 13 at ANGC or 16 at Bay Hill...or pretty much any par 5 under 575 yards.

And yet in its LOWEST scoring year (2015), it averaged above 4.5 (4.546). Every other year it's been higher.

Par is just a number, but since we view leaderboards by score relative to par, it's more exciting to see bigger moves made (eagles) than smaller moves (birdies) or no moves (pars).

The 13th, by the scoring average, is a near-perfect tweener hole. A half-par hole.

Tim, man, keep it up.

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,


The reason they do it is simple....it produces better results vs  teams with traditional 1-5 role players.


The new paradigm is you have small guys, medium guys, and bigs....and they all more or less can do the same things.  Shoot, Pass, set screens, rebounding, etc


But I would very much disagree on the teamwork component.  While 10 years ago, it was all about isolation 1 on 1s, if you watch all the best teams now like the Warriors and Rockets, they are very much team oriented with great ball movement where its all about finding the open guy, not isolation plays...which really only happens now at the end of the quarter or late in the game when teams want the ball in their best players hands.


IMO the game is funner than ever to watch because more and more teams play like the run and gun Lakers of the 80s and far less Thug and Slug ball of the 90s.


P.S. My biggest beef with the NBA game is all the traveling....and Lebron is the worst offender. He rarely drives to the basket without traveling (and he's already difficult to defend without giving him an extra step). But its not just him, its most players and they all get away with it.  I really wish they would fix this, but I guess fans like watching players take off from the 3 point line, take 3 steps, and jamming one home in traffic.

[jeffwarne]

P.S. My biggest beef with the NBA game is all the traveling....and Lebron is the worst offender. He rarely drives to the basket without traveling (and he's already difficult to defend without giving him an extra step). But its not just him, its most players and they all get away with it.  I really wish they would fix this, but I guess fans like watching players take off from the 3 point line, take 3 steps, and jamming one home in traffic.

Kalen,
You're probably right about the NBA-I don't watch enough to comment.
I'm speaking more about I see at The high school and college level.


The traveling is where they lost me years ago in the NBA.


Now when a high schooler takes 3 steps it's a "euro step" and anyone who questions it is ignorant (or old or both).
Yes impossible to defend someone who carries when he dribbles AND is allowed three steps.
Love watching the same kid get called for traveling 10-15 times in one game, then with different refs not get called at all.
What amazes me most is when a star takes 3-4 steps and no call is made and a nervous sub drags his pivot foot one inch 50 feet from the basket  the whistles blow like he robbed a bank.


I really can't watch it anymore and used to love it.

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,


I admittedly watch less college ball than I do pros....(present circumstances excluded as I love watching the Big dance)


But I see a TOONNN less travelling in the college game, and I appreciate that.  The "Euro Step" as they call it now is always tricky because it usually  looks bad, but is technically legal when done right.  Back when I ref'd and did countless hours of training, they taught us as best as possible to tell the difference, but its still tough at full speed without the benefit of instant replay. The other tough one is what they called the jump step back in the day, where a guy jumps during the act of dribbling, catches the ball with two hands while in the air, lands for his two steps and then leaps again.  Looks ugly as hell, but legal if you do it right.


 Thankfully college refs are pretty good at it, but most high school refs are just part time weekend warriors... 

[Kalen Braley]

Yes, if I could play with no pressure I could be a plus 6. Sadly though the pressure of posting 10 scores that low negates the possibility. Yesterday playing alone with my wife is a perfect example. I hit every green but wanted to make a birdie. The pressure of wanting to make a birdie and openly declaring so deteriorated my stroke with each passing green. By the time I reached the ninth I couldn't even get the ball to the hole.

John,


Looks like Romo is your golfing version  Doppleganger...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tony-romos-pga-tour-debut-goes-off-rails-late-175545837.html