[Erik J. Barzeski]

Whaaaaaaaaat?

That was one of the fundamentals to me, that you were no more entitled to "fairness" in the fairway than anywhere else.

The only place that rule is currently really applied is for an embedded ball. The R&A doesn't like to allow relief for an embedded ball elsewhere, the USGA finally got their way and the local rule and the standard rule flipped: in 2019 you'll get relief for an embedded ball anywhere in the General Area (so long as it is not embedded in sand).

John, your math still leaves a lot to be desired. You're still only 20 yards out while your opponent is still 140 yards out. And the 5% "advantage" that you made up only applies on holes where you seem to be forgetting that they get a TWO-STROKE penalty.

Were I playing you and getting a stroke as an 18 handicapper on that hole, I'd play three safe shots and leave myself a par putt for a net birdie putt.

[Garland Bayley]

And I'd rather have all my paycheck instead of gambling and drinking it away. You can't fight human nature.
btw: You wouldn't be a high handicap if you were that good at course management.

Obviously, you haven't seen Kalen play. Anthony Gray was disgusted by the shots we hit in the GRUDGE MATCH.

If you and Kalen can control the distance and trajectory of your iron shots, are excellent putters, have strong course management skills, don't lose many balls, and seldom take an X (all things I've seen you two claim over the past few weeks), how on earth are you both high handicappers?  I'm genuinely interested in what a typical round (shot for shot) looks like for you.

In the grudge match, Anthony Gray lost patience with us, and expressed his disgust when we were both way right in a hay field. One of many visits to the hay that day. As I have written many times, a main problem is squaring the club face.

[Garland Bayley]

And I'd rather have all my paycheck instead of gambling and drinking it away. You can't fight human nature.
btw: You wouldn't be a high handicap if you were that good at course management.

Obviously, you haven't seen Kalen play. Anthony Gray was disgusted by the shots we hit in the GRUDGE MATCH.

If you and Kalen can control the distance and trajectory of your iron shots, are excellent putters, have strong course management skills, don't lose many balls, and seldom take an X (all things I've seen you two claim over the past few weeks), how on earth are you both high handicappers?  I'm genuinely interested in what a typical round (shot for shot) looks like for you.

Brian,

When did I ever say the first two?  My driver distance is medium short and my vector control is spotty.  Its by far and away the worst part of my game.  My iron play is the next worst part of my game, which due to my lack of distance means more often than not, I'm approaching with 7 thru 3 iron, not 8 thru wedge.  And the majority of the time those approach shots are coming out of the rough, which further reduces my chances at a GIR

So when you combine inconsistent driving, with so so iron play, it adds up to very few greens in reg, ergo very few pars, but also lots of single bogeys.  But what it does not mean is that my drives are 50+ yards off line very often, and I'm not topping shots left and right or laying sod over the ball.  It means i'm missing my intended spots most of the time, but not getting into big trouble very often like OB or Hazards, because I aim away from it.

Over 18 holes, this typically means 2-3 pars, 11-12 bogeys, 2-3 double bogeys, occasional triple, and 1 X...which more or less means shooting 90 thru 95.

Helpful perspective, thanks...and I apologize, as it has been mostly Garland making the claims - some of them just happen to be about you, so you get lumped in.  Garland is the one that can execute all of Tiger's 9 shots on demand.   

Au contraire. I try the high fade, I am as likely to get the low dead pull right as the high fade left.

Don't let Kalen deceive you about not being offline significantly. He depended on off course walkers to find his ball at Chambers Bay.

[Pete_Pittock]

I know we are eliminating "Through the green" from the definitions, but doesn't the new Local Rule now necessitate a specific definition for "Fairway?"

Just looked up the language of the proposed specimen local rule. If defines "fairway" as any grass in the general area cut to fairway height or less.. My reading on this- any golfer should know what a fairway looks like, just like we've always done. 

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Just looked up the language of the proposed specimen local rule. If defines "fairway" as any grass in the general area cut to fairway height or less.. My reading on this- any golfer should know what a fairway looks like, just like we've always done.

Yes, we "know" what it is, but you'd think for the sake of completeness they'd define it. Some people will ask, for example, if there's LCP in your own fairway if the fringe around the green counts (this matters on some par threes where there's no "fairway").

So, does the fringe count as a fairway? What about for a drop with this Local Rule?

Anyway, one would think they'd define it when they define so many other things.

[Pete_Pittock]

Pretty sure the fringe is cut to "fairway height or less".

[Lou_Duran]

Just looked up the language of the proposed specimen local rule. If defines "fairway" as any grass in the general area cut to fairway height or less.. My reading on this- any golfer should know what a fairway looks like, just like we've always done.

What is a "specimen" local rule?  I.e. what does "specimen" mean or refer to?

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't believe anyone thought the game needed more interpretations on where to drop. Absolutely anytime you lose a ball on a par three you can drop somewhere puttable no closer to the hole. This will of course extend to the approach to any green. Your beloved gorse be damned. The provisional is effectively dead.


In all seriousness. Will there ever be a need to hit a provisional again? Provisionals replaced by arguments. The best drop artist wins.

[jeffwarne]

So now 18 handicaps will shoot 4 to 8 strokes lower per round without lowering their handicaps. This truly creates another class of player.

Nothing better than giving a shot a hole AND giving drops where a ball isn't...
I will say one thing, by allowing the fairway "cone" option, at least a player doesn't have to convince you his ball was lost in area that would've producued a an unobstructed shot from a perfect lie.(but somehow is unfindable)


Now he just has to convice me his half topped skank went 275 yards....


Ironically, it gives me an out from giving in to a request that we make our native(real native as in bushes) areas lateral-which really opens up a kettle of fish when players "negotiate" where the ball crossed the margin of the "hazard"--a very different thing from where the ball is "likely to be lost" (I just love that phrase)


"your ball is lost right here sir"
"You found it?"
"No sir but right here is where it would be if we had found it"

[jeffwarne]

Kalen,



The funny thing about this rule is that every 18 that I play with hits the ball further than me. They are going to be taking drops in the fairway 20 yds in front of my drive. How am I supposed to be giving them strokes and retain my sanity?

Are you allowed to go over the three minute limit to prove to someone that the area they've "likely lost" their ball, in fact does NOT contain their ball?

[Pete_Pittock]

Just looked up the language of the proposed specimen local rule. If defines "fairway" as any grass in the general area cut to fairway height or less.. My reading on this- any golfer should know what a fairway looks like, just like we've always done.

What is a "specimen" local rule?  I.e. what does "specimen" mean or refer to?

Lou,
am a bit out of date. The specimen, sample, model local rule is what is in the current rule book in appendix 1. There the USGA/R&A provide their preferred text for most local rules, to encourage conformity of language.


Didn't see an appendix in the rules rolled out this week.

[James Reader]

I don’t think the par 3 comment works.  If I read it right you still can’t drop it nearer the hole; so hitting OOB right and dropping on the fringe of the green is unlikely to be an option, except for some very unusual cases.  Seems to me it would have made the old Dowie hole at Hoylake a lot less intimidating for example!

[jeffwarne]

It definitely affects matches where shots are given.
Many a hole is won when BOTH players pump it out of bounds, then the player giving the shot rights the ship and hits a good provisional and the guy getting doesn't.
In this case they both drop further down the fairway, making it a par 3 where the shot is still in play.


It won't affect handicaps because an X is an X...


I laugh every time of think of this....but I can't wait to see the "cone" in action in a member event




the book's going to need another volume....

[Kyle Harris]

I know we are eliminating "Through the green" from the definitions, but doesn't the new Local Rule now necessitate a specific definition for "Fairway?"

Just looked up the language of the proposed specimen local rule. If defines "fairway" as any grass in the general area cut to fairway height or less.. My reading on this- any golfer should know what a fairway looks like, just like we've always done.

My interpretation is that any uniformly cut area of turf is fairway. So that 3" cut bordering the 0.5" cut applies. Uniformity is fair since it applies across the board and you can see it from the tee.

This is a bad, bad slipperly slope. What's next? Standards for height of cut? The Putting Green definition has a similar problem. Based on it, you should be able to mark the ball on the collar, as well. As most are now maintained with the specific purpose of putting as the primary stroke.

[Pete_Pittock]

A great example of rule change starting next year was Rory McIlroy's play on the 13th hole and his pull hook into the azaleas left of the green. If that had happened next year if he decided not to look for the ball, the drop would be by the green and the shrubbery and any decision making on how to hit the shot, or the trudge back up to the area of the previous spot would never happen.


Oops, As I woke up I realized that after the drop he would be laying four, and it was the 13th, not the 15th.

[Rick Lane]

But if It was next year and Rory dropped, he would be laying 4, and likely makes bogey. Way better outcome was finding the ball, hacking out in 3, and making par.  I think the two stroke penalty is the major difference maker....

[John Kavanaugh]

And here is where architecture will be destroyed under the new rule. The flowers and everything else around the course will be marked out of bounds. Don't forget, when you are OB you are not allowed to hit your ball from where you found it. Invest in white paint boys if you got it because we are going to see OB as the answer to every problem.

[Kyle Harris]

A great example of rule change starting next year was Rory McIlroy's play on the 15th hole and his pull hook into the azaleas left of the green. If that had happened next year if he decided not to look for the ball, the drop would be by the green and the shrubbery and any decision making on how to hit the shot, or the trudge back up to the area of the previous spot would never happen.

That is presuming this area is marked as a penalty area or The Masters Committee would use the proposed local rule.

I don't think either are very likely.

[Rick Lane]

As Pete said above, he could decide not to look for it.  Doesn’t have to be a penalty area.

[Kyle Harris]

As Pete said above, he could decide not to look for it.  Doesn’t have to be a penalty area.

Only if that local rule were selected by The Committee. As it stands right now he didn't have to look for it. In fact, he could have played a provisional ball and abandoned it right then and there based on the outcome of the provisional.

[John Kavanaugh]

We all know that the Masters will not invoke this idiotic new rule that is designed to get bad golfers around the course, but…


Remember when Phil hit the tree on nine and took the option of going back to his original spot? Under the new rule I think he could have gone out into the fairway and dropped. That would have saved him a shot.

[Pete_Pittock]

I modified my recent post, admitting that I slipped a shot. After the drop Rory's ball would be lying four, not three. As he was proceeding under lost ball rule, it would not be necessary to mark the shrubbery as a penalty area.

[Kalen Braley]

John,


I know you like to bag on this one, but the USGA has been very clear from day one!  From thier site:


"This Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite amateur level competitions."

[Sean_A]

John,

I know you like to bag on this one, but the USGA has been very clear from day one!  From thier site:

"This Local Rule is not intended for higher levels of play, such as professional or elite amateur level competitions."

Now we have to decide who is an elite amateur     A lot of 4 cappers act like they are elite 

I spose we could take the cut off point for applying to the Opens.  The US is 1.4 I think and The Open is scratch...call it .7.

Ciao
Ciao

[Pete_Pittock]

You can now order online at USGA Publications


The "Players Edition" is pocket-sized, but does not have all the rules. Free to USGA members


The Rules of Golf is about 5x7x1, cost $5 -


The "Official Guide" replaces the Decisions book $15.95


Expect $15+ for shipping.

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