Should architects consider more par 3s or par 5s?

[Duncan Cheslett]

Rich,


I vertainly think that if holes of over 450 yards were par 5s a course would be more enjoyable for most golfers. Most medium length courses would aquire another 2 or 3 par 5s.


I don't see that it would affect handicaps at all. Handucaps are not assessed against par.


It would make a difference to stroke indices though.

[Rich Goodale]

Agreed, Jerry and Duncan.  Linked to the 2019 simplifications of the rules (see Mr. Roselle's recent post), something like what we are discussing would also make the game more fun and more friendly.  Also, eliminating the scourge of 5-minutes looked for lost balls will reduce playing time and increase fun significantly.


Vis a vis the 6-6-6 standard, to all the well kent and knowledgeable architects out there, would not the 6-6-6 be easier to design, build and maintain?  And please do not tell me that 4-10-4 @7500+ is where your bread is buttered.  Would you rather build a Mona Lisa or a piece of farmland graffiti?


Slainte


Rich

[Sean_A]

I am wondering why folks assume 6/6/6 would be an easier course to build.


Ciao

[Jim Nugent]

This is a very interesting post with many thoughtful replies.  Thanks Jerry!


From me, how about a "standard"of a 6-6-6 course with 100-250 "par" 3's, 280-430 "par" 4's and 460-610 "par" 5's.  It could total c. 6400, per above.  It would challenge 99+% of all golfers and probably give the pros conniptions.  It would also be walking friendly.  I think that the 6-6-6 configuration would be much more architect-friendly than the boring 4-10-4 standard.


rfg

The six par 3s could be excellent IMO, depending on the site.  The six 5s make it too hard for average golfers.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Gil Hanse's Red Tiger course at Doral is a 6/6/6 configuration I believe, and I liked it best of the courses I played there.

[Carl Rogers]

from the following perspectives I vote for more par 3's and much much fewer par 5's:
-less fairway area to mow, sprinkle & fertilize
-speed up play
-par 3's give the higher handicapper more more chances to make a par
-I agree w/ Sean's more conceptual arguments more variety of short range shots, etc

[Kalen Braley]

To me it depends more on whose building them.  Its been discussed here before, but certain architects seem to build different hole lengths/types better that others.  I'd rather play a par 4 that's well done over a boring par 5 and visa versa.


P.S.  In terms of pace of play, I would think more par 3s would be less preferred, because it almost always causes play to slow down...especially the long ones.

[Sean_A]

To me it depends more on whose building them.  Its been discussed here before, but certain architects seem to build different hole lengths/types better that others.  I'd rather play a par 4 that's well done over a boring par 5 and visa versa.


P.S.  In terms of pace of play, I would think more par 3s would be less preferred, because it almost always causes play to slow down...especially the long ones.

Par 3s don't take longer to play than par 5s.  Its a hole spacing issue.  You may prefer the pace of more 5s as there may be less waiting time, but they are not quicker to play.  Besides, if slow play is really a cultural issue, the par of a hole should not be an issue at all.


Ciao 

[Kalen Braley]

To me it depends more on whose building them.  Its been discussed here before, but certain architects seem to build different hole lengths/types better that others.  I'd rather play a par 4 that's well done over a boring par 5 and visa versa.


P.S.  In terms of pace of play, I would think more par 3s would be less preferred, because it almost always causes play to slow down...especially the long ones.

Par 3s don't take longer to play than par 5s.  Its a hole spacing issue.  You may prefer the pace of more 5s as there may be less waiting time, but they are not quicker to play.  Besides, if slow play is really a cultural issue, the par of a hole should not be an issue at all.


Ciao

Sean,


Fair enough, I can't argue against that.  But nothing begets more slow play and lolly-gagging than having to wait around on the tee.  People get distracted, start checking phones, mucking it up and next thing you know its like that every hole and the slow mindset takes over.

[Jerry Kluger]

I remember playing years ago where it was customary to wave up the group behind on par 3s - doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

[Jeff Schley]

I remember playing years ago where it was customary to wave up the group behind on par 3s - doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Playing through is the big one.  Not sure when people starting to take it personal, but when learning the game my dad and a golf pro gave me the analogy that it is like driving and being passed by another car.  If there is space in front of you and the other group behind you is going faster he passes you and you let it happen.  You don't veer your car and get in front, it is a courtesy.

That isn't taught at all and most people complain about the "speed golfers behind us" before they would think, let us take 2-3 minutes and wait on the tee for this group to play through if the hole is open in front of you.

Letting groups hit up on par 3's I'm not convinced that makes a difference much, but perhaps a tad faster.

[Thomas Dai]

More par-3’s (variable length) and less par-5’s would be just fine by me.
Atb

I fall very much into this camp.  Less 5s means the very under-explored ranges between 80 and 125 and 225 and 325 would have a chance to get more play.   To me, these yardages are inherently more interesting than the typical 525 par 5.
Ciao

+1
Atb

[Jerry Kluger]

I remember playing Torrey Pines North and one par 3 was dramatically downhill and it would take some time to get down to the green after hitting your tee shot so it was customary to waive up the group behind and then they could walk down the hill while you were finishing the hole.  I think this also works well on long par 3s where fewer players hit the green and it therefor takes longer to play the hole.

[Edward Glidewell]

Also don't forget about the par 6 played in 2015 on the Challenge Tour!  The hole is the 15th on the Legend Course at the Penati Golf Resort in Senica, Slovakia. 783 yards!

https://www.pga.com/golf-courses/golf-buzz/783-yard-par-6-hole-longest-in-european-tour-history

There's a 767 yard par 6 at Farmstead Golf Links in Calabash, NC (part of the Grand Strand/Myrtle Beach area). I think you tee off in South Carolina and finish in North Carolina (or possibly vice versa). It's not a very interesting hole, and I think it'd be pretty hard to make a par 6 without at least one shot that simply asks you to hit it as far as possible. The one at Farmstead basically asks you to hit it as far as possible 3 times without asking much else (I think there's water at some point), if I remember correctly.