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Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #175 on: May 15, 2019, 03:03:32 AM »
I just caught the tail end of special on the Golf Channel, about Lido.  Two guys were walking the site, explaining a bit of the history, pointing out where various holes were located.  Also, they showed computer graphic representations of the holes -- graphics that looked an awful lot like the ones Peter did.  Peter, if you see this, do you know anything about it, and if so, i wonder if they got the idea for the show from your work and this thread?


Yeah, I shared the images and flyovers to help give the piece some color.  Connor was the one that worked with them and he suggested that they incorporate some of these renderings.  I hustled up and completed a lot of the peripheral areas and the 18th hole so that it could be shown. 


Now that it has been aired, I'll post more of the progress... maybe tomorrow if I have time.  I think that the 18th hole turned out really good and I have a much better perspective of why it was considered to be such a great hole after seeing it from all angles.


Peter, this is really pretty amazing.  Was catching up on this thread.
I hope your son is doing well!

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #176 on: May 15, 2019, 07:00:36 AM »
Peter,


Just adding this to the original thread: https://www.golfchannel.com/video/2019-pga-championship-lido-golf-club-lost-golf-treasure


That was a cool piece to watch and if nothing else, your work is inspiring others to think differently.


45 degrees, sunny and drying out for Bethpage 2019...
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #177 on: May 15, 2019, 07:07:42 AM »
As always, can't thank Peter enough for doing this amazing work. 

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #178 on: May 15, 2019, 02:08:58 PM »
As always, can't thank Peter enough for doing this amazing work.


They might at least have given him a Credit!
‘Artist Rendition’...


F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Cal Seifert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #179 on: May 15, 2019, 02:24:58 PM »
What game is this playable on? The golf club? This was the most interesting thing I've seen on golf channel in quite some time.

Dean DiBerardino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #180 on: May 15, 2019, 04:24:19 PM »
This thread as well as the segment on Golf Channel are great and Peter’s 3D digital models are fantastic.

It would be great if Golf Channel would continue do similar segments. Imagine a segment this August during the U.S. Amateur at Pinehurst No. 2 about Overhills featuring Peter’s work as well as Chris Buie’s!

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #181 on: May 15, 2019, 04:38:40 PM »
As always, can't thank Peter enough for doing this amazing work.


They might at least have given him a Credit!
‘Artist Rendition’...



I was thinking the same thing but hopefully he was paid and then it's not required?

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #182 on: May 15, 2019, 11:35:14 PM »
As always, can't thank Peter enough for doing this amazing work.


They might at least have given him a Credit!
‘Artist Rendition’...



I was thinking the same thing but hopefully he was paid and then it's not required?


I didn't want to get paid and I preferred that they didn't use my name.  I just think that it is really cool that they packaged the story in a way that was interesting for their audience.  We are biased here I'm sure, but I also think that they should regularly do much more historical and architectural pieces. 


I would love to watch replays of past championships with narrations and interviews to give it context.  Also, there are so many interesting stories about lost courses, course evolution, and the golden age architects.  They could just pick a character from the past and do a 30 minute history lesson on them and I think that a lot of people would be interested. 

Mark Fedeli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #183 on: May 16, 2019, 02:38:19 PM »
As always, can't thank Peter enough for doing this amazing work.


They might at least have given him a Credit!
‘Artist Rendition’...



I was thinking the same thing but hopefully he was paid and then it's not required?


I didn't want to get paid and I preferred that they didn't use my name.  I just think that it is really cool that they packaged the story in a way that was interesting for their audience.  We are biased here I'm sure, but I also think that they should regularly do much more historical and architectural pieces. 


I would love to watch replays of past championships with narrations and interviews to give it context.  Also, there are so many interesting stories about lost courses, course evolution, and the golden age architects.  They could just pick a character from the past and do a 30 minute history lesson on them and I think that a lot of people would be interested.


I'm always surprised with these niche cable networks that evolve fully toward the lowest common denominator. I understand that with the current TV landscape they need to go in that direction, but you'd think it'd be even better business to have one or two shows dedicated to more nuanced topics, if only to keep the other end of the audience spectrum checking back in on occasion. When your most sophisticated regularly-scheduled show is Feherty, you're in trouble.
South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #184 on: May 16, 2019, 03:47:13 PM »
As always, can't thank Peter enough for doing this amazing work.


They might at least have given him a Credit!
‘Artist Rendition’...



I was thinking the same thing but hopefully he was paid and then it's not required?


I didn't want to get paid and I preferred that they didn't use my name.  I just think that it is really cool that they packaged the story in a way that was interesting for their audience.  We are biased here I'm sure, but I also think that they should regularly do much more historical and architectural pieces. 


I would love to watch replays of past championships with narrations and interviews to give it context.  Also, there are so many interesting stories about lost courses, course evolution, and the golden age architects.  They could just pick a character from the past and do a 30 minute history lesson on them and I think that a lot of people would be interested.


Cool, Peter,
Your work on it is just bloody marvellous. Lido must have been an incredible experience and short of any colour images, your visualisations are the next best thing.
Thanks again for the work.
Now I'd like to talk to you about Ferryhills..........
 ;)
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #185 on: May 16, 2019, 10:42:51 PM »
Peter.


Are you able to work on any new holes from Lido?

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #186 on: May 17, 2019, 12:49:40 AM »
Here are some photos to catch up with my progress.

First of all, the 18th hole.  The great photo of the 18th hole shows it after a big part of the green was removed to make room for the 9th tee after the cabanas were put in and the 8th hole was squeezed over. 

I'm trying to recreate the original green.  However, I don't have great data on the actual contours.  For right now, I modeled it after Mackenzie's entry and the plastacine models.  My version is still extreme, but doesn't have the 7 foot+ tiers like in the contest entry.  I just think that CBM must have dampened them down to fit in with the rest of the course's style.   


This is from the teeing ground.  The left fairway is very welcoming.  The right one is barely visable to the golfer's eye level.  The middle fairway is blind and would have been a daring carry because of the way that it is narrow if you barely carry and then expanded from there.


From this elevated angle over the road, it is much easier to see the propositions.  If you go left, it pretty much turns it into a par 5.  If you go right, you have a really difficult angle to the green, which I'll show.  And if you pull off the big carry over the middle, your approach is still difficult, but it is right up the gut and would allow you to bounce a shot on.  The prevailing breeze would have been right into your face.  In addition to the basic strategy that I just outlined, even strong players would have to shift their strategy depending on the wind and I would suppose the pin placement too. 


This is your reward for pulling off the hero shot to the middle fairway.  Probably a driving iron, mid iron, or some sort of spoon/ bulldog left.  You can bounce it on, but missing left, right, or long is trouble. 


Here is the problem with going to the right hand fairway off the tee.  This image is zoomed way closer to the hole than you'd actually be- just doing it so that you can see the detail.  Also, this pin is the most friendly pin from the right.  If the pin were back or right, you couldn't get at it.  I would think that most people who went right would have had to try to position their next shot short of the green and then tried to get up and down for par.  This is a true 4/5 half par hole with significant risk of disaster.  CBM discussed what a good closer this would be in match play and said something like- there is no better hole in the world to give the man who is one down a chance to tie it up. 


Here is a decent look at how I shaped the green as a placeholder- using the Mackenzie entry and the plastacine models as my main sources.  This view is from behind the green with the 9th tee in the foreground.   If I can get better info, I can adapt it. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 12:52:02 AM by Peter Flory »

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #187 on: May 17, 2019, 01:04:48 AM »
Here are the latest 2 aerials from the north and the south to show the current state of progress:

I have the housing development mid progress as it was in 1926.  I'm also starting to put in paths in the waste areas and that is increasing the level of realism from the ground level perspective. 







This is such a beautiful jigsaw puzzle that CBM put together.  The way that bunkers act as double hazards and the way that the contours from one green complex affects the views from other teeing grounds is pretty amazing.  I really like the way that the Redan 16th and the Short 14th green complexes provide big shoulders for the 12th hole (Lagoon) on the outside of the dogleg.  We'll get to the 12th and I'll show the work in progress, but based on what I'm seeing, that would have to be the number one handicap hole.  The carry over water is incredibly daunting and the approach is one of the most difficult on the course.  The articles talk about players have driving irons for their approaches (basically a 1 iron).  In the lower aerial, it is the hole across the lagoon from the 4th hole (which runs along the bottom).  The back tee for it is pinched between the water and the 11th green and the 12th green is the one just above the 4th green. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 01:07:53 AM by Peter Flory »

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #188 on: May 17, 2019, 01:21:25 AM »
12th hole (sneak preview):

The only think that I've done on this hole so far is to do a basic sculpting of the green complex and the punchbowl green.  This isn't as extreme as the punchbowl at Streamsong Black, but it is still very dramatic. 

After a huge heroic water carry where you bite off as much as you dare, you're still left with a very long approach.  You have to carry a mean set of cross bunkers well short of the green and then let your ball run over the front slope and into the punchbowl. 

Even thought I haven't sculpted the fairway at all, here is sort of what it looks like on the approach... except back up about 100 more yards and imagine the view from ground level:  Notice that only a fraction of the flagstick is visible, even from this elevated camera angle. 



This punchbowl also had a bit of the circus rink embankment like the 10th hole.



Here is the actual view from behind the green.  That water in the left side of the picture is what has to be carried off of the tee.  Just an extremely difficult golf hole in every respect.  Built for adventurous and sporting fellows!

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #189 on: May 17, 2019, 01:36:24 AM »
Sneak preview of the 13th (Knoll):

Relatively short hole with an extremely elevated green.  I'm not happy with the bunkers just yet.  They are the right shape, but they need to be more elevated into the face of the knoll and not so much at ground level.  CBM made the fairway very bumpy to make the short and blind pitch more difficult. 



There was some sort of pronounced walkway or ramp from the green to the elevated 14th tee.  For now, I have steps.  This middle part of the back nine is a bit of a blind spot from a historical photo standpoint.  And the angled aerials are better around the perimeter.  To get this more accurate, I believe that I need to have a softer plateau (not quite so Pete Dye like) and adjust the bunkers to a higher level in the face. 



That's it for now.  The holes that I haven't finished are sort of in this state with rough elevation outlines.  I need to refine them a lot, which takes time.  But getting closer. 


I'm really looking forward to #17 because there are some nice photos of it. 

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #190 on: May 17, 2019, 03:04:13 AM »
Peter,
What you have produced so far is quite remarkable. A big "well done".
I imagine that one day this work will find its way into indoor golf simulator mode and I look forward to 'playing it' when it does.[size=78%] [/size]
atb

Jeff Churchill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #191 on: May 17, 2019, 09:56:03 PM »
Congratulations for your artistry being featured on the Golf Channel review of the history of the Lido.
I look forward to each rendering of Charles Blair Macdonald's legendary masterpiece presented here.
Many a cold winter's night was spent imagining my feeble attempts to play this Atlantis of golf's fabled past.

I sorely wish some very rich 1 percenter would find a seaside enclave and restore the vision of perfection that was once the Lido.

Thanks Peter
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 10:02:05 PM by Jeff Churchill »

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #192 on: May 18, 2019, 05:10:20 AM »
I imagine that one day this work will find its way into indoor golf simulator mode and I look forward to 'playing it' when it does.


I have never had any interest in "playing" golf on any simulated course, just would rather play real golf. With Peter's work here on Lido, I would absolutely love to play Lido!! Thanks Peter.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #193 on: September 04, 2019, 08:17:40 PM »

Sorry, this isn't an update on the course, but just something interesting.  I got 2 clubs that someone on Long Island had in their basement. 

I'm assuming that these were actually used to play the course at one point in time. 

It is a mashie (this one has about a 7 iron loft) and a putter with a nice flange.  Both are completely playable and will be in the bag for the first 18 hole sim play through after construction has completed.   


Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #194 on: September 16, 2019, 11:11:21 PM »
Is there a reason why all the photos have been deleted?

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #195 on: September 17, 2019, 06:59:43 PM »
Yeah.  TinyPic shut down.  I picked the wrong one I guess. 


Fortunately, I have all of them locally.  At some point, I'll do a front nine tour in an organized way. 

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #196 on: April 18, 2020, 01:57:23 AM »
Deleted due to technical issues with photo sharing... reposted subsequently.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 02:51:12 PM by Peter Flory »

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #197 on: April 18, 2020, 03:19:07 AM »
Great work Peter, however I'm unable to view the photos on my desktop or mobile.  May want to look into that.
Thanks again for the work.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #198 on: April 18, 2020, 11:12:27 AM »
Great work Peter, however I'm unable to view the photos on my desktop or mobile.  May want to look into that.
Thanks again for the work.
Yep. Not only are your recent photos not rendering, but all of your old images are gone as well. You need to find a different photo hosting service and relink the images. I dropped Photobucket recently due to this same problem and switched to a free account on Flickr and now I'm back in business.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Cal Seifert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lido- Virtual Build
« Reply #199 on: April 18, 2020, 11:15:04 AM »
Will this course be playable on the Golf Club 2019 when its finished?  If so, can't wait.  Great work.