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Anthony Gray

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2009, 11:55:01 AM »


  I think Bill McBride's first, secound and third sets of clubs were all hickory shafted.

  Anthony

 

Chris_Clouser

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2009, 12:00:59 PM »
Did it once and hated it.  I couldn't get the ball off the ground for some reason.  It was like when I first started playing the game. 

I won't ever hit with a hickory again.  For all the romance that gets heaped on certain things, perhaps things change because they actually get better....

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2009, 12:04:31 PM »

Anthony

How can you say that about an old senior member of GCA.com. A little respect for a guy who not only had Hickory clubs, he can remember Young Tom winning the 1870 Open at Prestwick. 8)

Be gentle with our senior members, please :o

Melvyn



Chris

Perseverance, you are just accustom to the modern game, spoilt for choice and never learnt the art of playing a real mans game of golf (with Hickory). ;)

Melvyn 


Clyde Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2009, 02:39:14 PM »
I have a small collection of play clubs including a good set of irons by George Nicoll plus the set of clubs from Keepers of the Green that Forrest Richardson mentioned earlier. Couldn't find any decent woods so I have Mike Just with Louisville Golf make a driving brassie and a cleek for me. I can hit the brassie about 240 yards if I hit the sweet spot.

I have played many rounds and it is different yet fun to play with hickories. A mishit shot is a lot worse. It makes you appreciate what Harry Vardon and others of his era could shot with hickories. 82 is my best score at my home course from about 6000 yards.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2009, 04:07:02 PM »


  I think Bill McBride's first, secound and third sets of clubs were all hickory shafted.

  Anthony

 

I did the same. Gave me a terrific feeling for how talented the players of that era were.

I shot 45 for the 9 holes, if you nailed it, the ball went fine, by otherwise, sideways and short.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2009, 04:57:25 PM »
I have.  Played well because I was swinging with more tempo just trying to make contact.  Oakhurst is the very best place to do it but everyone should play with them once.

Lester

G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2009, 05:24:44 PM »
I have a full set of hickories and play with them every so often in the summer. Best round to date is a 75 at Deal (which just about equals my best round there with modern clubs!).

A couple of things:

1. If the ground is very soft, or if it is into the wind, then its tough to get good distance off the tee, but if the ground is firm (ie. summer links) and there isn't too much wind then the ball goes almost as far as my modern driver (maybe 10 yards less). I can carry it almost as far, and the ball bounds forward on landing, tiger style, due to less backspin.

2. While the swing I use with my hickories is probably less consistent, I find that my hands often compensate at the last second and do what needs to be done to keep the ball straight. With my hickory driver I rarely miss the fairway, and I have much better control over trajectory and draw/fade.

3. Irons are a little tougher to get used to as they have less backspin on the shots and so fly a little differently. However, once you get used to them its fine. My finest moment with my irons was about 2 years ago, hitting a hickory 1 iron 220 yards to the front edge (but middle) of the green on the par 3 18th hole at East Lake, during a putting competition to celebrate Bob's lowest round there, with about 50 people standing and drinking around the green, wearing a shirt and tie in the dusk light. Now that was a nervous shot, but I still felt confident enough that I'd hit it decently when I agreed to do it!

4. There is no psych-out like turning up for a match and pulling out a hickory club and announcing that your opponents must surely win this match, only to nail one down the middle :-)

Allan Minto

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2009, 05:51:32 PM »
I've had the pleasure of taking part in the World Hickory Open Championship Pro-Am for the past three years and also manage 2 or 3 rounds at Musselburgh's Old Course each year with hickories. I can honestly say, that irrespective of how well or badly I've played, each game has been enormous fun. We are restricted to just six clubs in the World Hickory Open, which means you have to be a bit more creative, thinking over each shot a little more than normal. We normally play with Pro V1s and a well struck shot travels almost as far as we could hit with modern equipment. Some of the pros were hitting it close to 275yds on the firm links fairways. The biggest difference is when you mishit one, as they are obviously far less forgiving than modern clubs.

Best to avoid bunkers if you can, as most of the irons had virtually no flange until Sarazen developed the modern sand wedge.

During my most recent game at Musselburgh, I used a replica guttie and it still flew pretty well but I think there would be a noticeable drop in distance with the real thing.

I hate to blow my own trumpet but one of my best ever rounds was played using hickories. Back in 1989 I was invited to play in the British Golf Collectors Championship at Musselburgh, so I hastily put together a small bag of six pre 1935 clubs. I managed to have one of those rare days, when everything fell into place, popping tee shots down the middle, irons onto the greens and I holed a few putts. The result was a 64 for 18 holes (2 loops of 9), breaking the existing course record by 3 shots.

I suppose it proves that you can score well with any equipment on your day.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2009, 06:07:27 PM »
A name that’s sadly missing form G CA these days is Alfie Ward. I urge you to read the interview with him on here, I‘ve met tens of GCA people and none have inspired me quite like Alfie has.  I’ve assembled a set of Hickories via eBay and now al I have to do is remember the idea is not to better the last round every time but to keep trying try something new (Hickories and the way they play) and to have fun.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,28615.msg551504/topicseen/

These are the notes he prepared for us that day.

I hope you’re well Alfie.




My name is Alfie Ward and I look forward to meeting you at Old Musselburgh Links on 26th March for a Hickory Golf experience. In order to save a little time on the day, I have prepared this brief introduction to help explain a few aspects of the experience.

The course ; Musselburgh Old Course is recognised as being the oldest playing golf course in the world dating back (officially) to 1672, and (reputedly) to 1567 when it is believed that Mary Queen of Scots played here – before she lost that critical eye to ball contact ??
Originally 7 holes, an 8th was added in 1832 and then the 9th hole in 1870.
Naturally, the course bears little resemblance to the one that hosted many Open Championships and “stakes” matches throughout the 19th century, although the layout is basically the same with the exception that the old 9th is now the 1st hole.
The Brassie was invented here in 1885 to cope with shots being played off the adjacent road, whereby a brass plate was affixed to the sole of the club to prevent damage to the club.

The Equipment ; Each player is furnished with a set of G. Nicoll reproduction hickories (1920’s) consisting of ; Brassie (2 wood) – Mid Iron, (3 iron) – Mashie, (5 iron) – Mashie Niblick, (7 iron) – Niblick, (9 iron) – and the famous Gem putter. All complete with a very lightweight “pencil” bag and cane bag stand.
It should be noted that, No Liability is incurred by the player in the event of a breakage – although we do ask that these expensive clubs are treated with the utmost respect and care. Thank you.
(even though it is NOT going to rain – please bring your own umbrella ?)

The Balls; Here, the player may choose at any time during play, between a typical gutta percha ball of the late 19th century (Willie Park – The Ideal), or the more “user friendly” Lattice pattern replica of the 1920’s?
Given that these balls ARE replica’s, they are nonetheless a rarity in any hickory play worldwide and can be explained in detail on the course!

Tips : The prime objective (in our opinion), is that you attain a genuine and authentic feel for hickory play whilst extracting the maximum FUN possible !! Harry and I will guide you through your round and hopefully expand upon any questions that may arise as we proceed.
Obviously, you are not going to get the same distance from your normal hi-tech shots – so you will have to allow for that yourself.
Our best tip of all is – just relax and enjoy your golf !!!

All else will become clear – on the day, but should you require further information, please contact Tony or myself. As the old saying stated ;

Play the ball as it lies – and take the course as you find it !

Let's make GCA grate again!

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2009, 03:26:41 AM »
A name that’s sadly missing form G CA these days is Alfie Ward. I urge you to read the interview with him on here, I‘ve met tens of GCA people and none have inspired me quite like Alfie has.  I’ve assembled a set of Hickories via eBay and now al I have to do is remember the idea is not to better the last round every time but to keep trying try something new (Hickories and the way they play) and to have fun.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,28615.msg551504/topicseen/

These are the notes he prepared for us that day.

I hope you’re well Alfie.




My name is Alfie Ward and I look forward to meeting you at Old Musselburgh Links on 26th March for a Hickory Golf experience. In order to save a little time on the day, I have prepared this brief introduction to help explain a few aspects of the experience.

The course ; Musselburgh Old Course is recognised as being the oldest playing golf course in the world dating back (officially) to 1672, and (reputedly) to 1567 when it is believed that Mary Queen of Scots played here – before she lost that critical eye to ball contact ??
Originally 7 holes, an 8th was added in 1832 and then the 9th hole in 1870.
Naturally, the course bears little resemblance to the one that hosted many Open Championships and “stakes” matches throughout the 19th century, although the layout is basically the same with the exception that the old 9th is now the 1st hole.
The Brassie was invented here in 1885 to cope with shots being played off the adjacent road, whereby a brass plate was affixed to the sole of the club to prevent damage to the club.

The Equipment ; Each player is furnished with a set of G. Nicoll reproduction hickories (1920’s) consisting of ; Brassie (2 wood) – Mid Iron, (3 iron) – Mashie, (5 iron) – Mashie Niblick, (7 iron) – Niblick, (9 iron) – and the famous Gem putter. All complete with a very lightweight “pencil” bag and cane bag stand.
It should be noted that, No Liability is incurred by the player in the event of a breakage – although we do ask that these expensive clubs are treated with the utmost respect and care. Thank you.
(even though it is NOT going to rain – please bring your own umbrella ?)

The Balls; Here, the player may choose at any time during play, between a typical gutta percha ball of the late 19th century (Willie Park – The Ideal), or the more “user friendly” Lattice pattern replica of the 1920’s?
Given that these balls ARE replica’s, they are nonetheless a rarity in any hickory play worldwide and can be explained in detail on the course!

Tips : The prime objective (in our opinion), is that you attain a genuine and authentic feel for hickory play whilst extracting the maximum FUN possible !! Harry and I will guide you through your round and hopefully expand upon any questions that may arise as we proceed.
Obviously, you are not going to get the same distance from your normal hi-tech shots – so you will have to allow for that yourself.
Our best tip of all is – just relax and enjoy your golf !!!

All else will become clear – on the day, but should you require further information, please contact Tony or myself. As the old saying stated ;

Play the ball as it lies – and take the course as you find it !



The nine holes we played that day at Musselburgh was a great experience and one I'd happily repeat again should the opportunity arise.  As others have stated when you make a good contact with hickories then you don't necessarily notice the loss of distance.  However you are punished for a mishit.

I'd encourage anyone travelling to Scotland and interested in playing with hickories to contact Alfie Ward with a view to arranging a game.
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Christoph Meister

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2009, 04:34:19 AM »
Hello,

until three years ago I had only collected hickory clubs without ever using them...The day before our annual meeting of the EAGHC European Asscociation of Golf Historians & Collectors in October 2007 i played my first 18-hole round wit hickories at Hamburg-Falkenstein. I never would have thought that it is such a great fun to play classic pre-1939 golf courses with hickory shafted golf clubs, particulartly as it gives you that special feeling what it must have been like to play a course during the 1920s when for exemple most of the classic Colt courses (and other fine courses by other golf architects) were designed.

Most things said here about playing with hickories are correct, i.e. meaning I have had the same experiences. I have between 6 and 8 clubs in my back depending on the course and I also have a spare set for friends who want to try it...Last time I used my modern clubs was in July 2008! If you look at my post about the new course at Budersand on the isle of Sylt you will see that I played with hickories....

On August 5th we will play the German Hickory Championship at Bad Wildungen GC (designed by Hoffmann/Fahrenholz/MacKenzie - Charles that is - in 1930) - hire clubs available - anyone from this forum interested might register or contact me through:

http://www.germanhickory.com

A few days later a French Hickory Championship will be played at Chantilly north of Paris, to register pls. check:

http://www.francehickory.com/index2.html

There will be a hickory golf clinic by Randy Jensen (see Steve DeWalle's previous post) coming all the way from Nebraska!

Christoph






« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 04:38:32 AM by Christoph Meister »
Golf's Missing Links - Continental Europe
 https://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/wales-2
EAGHC European Association of
Golf Historians & Collectors
http://www.golfika.com
German Hickory Golf Society e.V.
http://www.german-hickory.com

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2009, 06:25:19 AM »

The Home of Golf web site  www.homeofgolf.tv  has a short video clip on the St Andrews Golf Company, which show some of the clubs being manufactured. The exact links is below.
http://www.homeofgolf.tv/2009/03/02/st-andrews-golf-company-episode-3/
I found this new site quite interesting and informative yet showing it is in the learning stages.

Hope you find the above clip and site of interest.

A word on Alfie Ward, a most helpful Gentleman you will ever meet in the world of Golf. Alfie has been a great help to me. As for Hickory, he is the man to speak to in Scotland.

Alfie has not posted on here for a year and is greatly missed, not just for his words of golfing wisdom and knowledge of history but also for his wicked humour.

Melvyn


Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2009, 11:37:01 AM »
Redanman - Good to hear from you once again !

I've been hitting Hickories, off and on, since 1934, but I think the most interesting find just happened a year ago when I fell upon some Tom Stewart Jr irons which are really great to play with.

In the Sotheby's sale of the Jeffery B Ellis collection, September 2007 I quote from its offering of Bobby Jones Stewart irons:  "Bobby
Jones estimated that during his playing career of fifteen years, he had bought and tried more than 200 clubs, with 18 making his active list.  In his 1927 book with O. B. Keeler, Jones wrote, "I love irons.  And knocking about a good deal I have gradually accumulated a set which seems to fit.  They've been copied by Tom Stewart at St. Andrews and by Victor East, of the Spalding company."

Not surprising but my last visit to Massachusetts Golf Assn museum in Norton, MA, in a glassed in enclosure, were Francis Ouimet's irons, also Tom Stewart Jr.

Mark Arata

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2009, 12:08:23 PM »
I was fortunate enough to play the Dunes club with Ralph and hit the hickory clubs.....sadly I played much better with those than my regular clubs. I liked the extra weight of the clubs, especially the woods. You do have to really concentrate on hitting the ball near the hosel of the club, and there really wasnt any bounce on the irons, which I actually liked.

They are a lot of fun to hit, once you over come the fear of breaking one of them, after Ralph tells you they were from 1897 and cost more than my entire net worth.........  ;D
New Orleans, proud to swim home...........

Tom Huckaby

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2009, 02:19:51 PM »
I've played quite a bit of golf using old hickory-shafted clubs, and well.... the key is that GOOD ONES - like Ralph has - can certainly be doable.  One can hit shots like those described.  Sure it's still a bit tougher - mainly due to the tiny heads both in woods and irons - but it can be done.

However, clubs like Ralphs are pretty damn expensive, as others have alluded to! 

I have 10 hickory clubs now myself, and I went low-end.. just tried to get somewhat playable clubs without breaking the bank.

These are really really tough to hit.  And again it's not so much the shafts, but the tiny heads.  Misses are severely punished, something one forgets can happen with todays grapefruits on the ends of sticks.

But that is part of the fun of doing it... of course... I just had to give a counterpoint to all these posts seemingly saying how playable these clubs are.

 ;)

Steve D

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2009, 12:05:43 AM »
I absolutely agree with that statement Tom.  The hickory clubs must not only be good, they must be suited to the player.  Randy Jensen is about the best guy in the world to do this as mentioned above.  He was able to bend the clubs I bought from him to the desired lofts and he made sure that the shafts had a frequency that matched the flex on my modern clubs and suited my swing speed.  Picking up some hickory shafted clubs a the local flee market and getting clubs from Randy are as different as riding a bike and driving a car.

Good point Tom. I'm glad you brought it up.

Steve

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2009, 01:51:35 AM »
Just thought it was time to add a little something. Mark and Dave, glad to hear how much you guys enjoyed and learned from your experiences. You are welcome to try again anytime we can work it out.
Just for sake of accuracy, my personal set (irons) has been primarily a Stewart RTJ group, circa 1928. I refer to them as "pro grade clubs" because of the qualities of the shafts and heads.
Dave the club I had you try was a Mongrel Mashie, a rare 30 degree utility club, with its original ringed hickory shaft.

Randy Jensen is a good reference for hickory play. He did produce a good book about most all aspects of assembling a set and playing hickory clubs. It does cover both the early 20th century (the most prevalent era played) and the late 19th century.
This is a link to it: http://www.hickorygolf.com/pages/newscss2.html
Chris McIntryre is a good resource for balls. His current mesh for 20th century play is a great ball and is expected to become the standard for US events. His new gutty line score replica is very close to the real thing, only being a few percent more lively than a real gutty. I wish I was in shape to play a round at Oakhurst with this ball and my 1870-80 set (Robert White irons and T Morris wood clubs).

Foe those people going to Kingsley, I hope to bring a couple of sets to give a couple guys the experience of playing this quality of club.

ralph
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2009, 04:13:25 AM »
Quick question.

Would you consider hickory shafted clubs made by a modern manufacturer--like Louisville Golf--to be in "the spirit" of playing with older clubs?  I'm looking to play a few courses with hickory club and don't want to be seen as cheating.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2009, 05:33:27 AM »

Ben

If you want to be really true to the Spirit then you should acquire your Hickory clubs from one of the original manufacturers. I understand that The St Andrews Golf Company may fit that bill (note Reply#36).

That is not to say that other companies can not produce a good quality reproduction set, but as you used the word Spirit, IMHO you need to go the an old established company.

Melvyn 



Allan Patterson

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2009, 06:42:05 AM »
There is a 9 hole course in the town of Cupar, 12 miles from Standrews just starting to take golf. It is called Kingarrock Golf Course. Play is by using Hickory clubs only. There is a choice of 2 types of ball. The 1898 or the 1924. Giving the course a bogey of 37 or 34.
The course measures 2022 yards. The course has been laid out to follow the original routing as much as the old plans and maps would allow i believe. The whole experience is focused on making the golfer feel like they area a guest of the family who used to own the golf course an estate in the 30,s. You get a wee dram when you arrive. The clubs, balls and the refreshments are part of the green fee, which i think is about £20. I have not played it myself, but some of the guys i work with have. They said it was great fun. The site is www.golfandthistle.com if anyone wants more info.

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2009, 10:29:05 AM »
Hickories? I've never even have hit persimmon woods. Took up the game after the death of wood.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 10:33:39 AM by Bill Gayne »

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2009, 10:56:35 AM »

Bill

Your loss so far, but then its never too late. It is worth the experience of playing with Hickory.

Melvyn

PS Woods not dead, its just in your mind - there is a whole new world waiting for you out there Bill. You have just got to reach out and experience it. Your choice :P

Troy Alderson

Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2009, 12:48:30 PM »
Add me to those who have played with hickories and gutties, at Oakhurst. I will get my chance again at Bandon next month.
What used to be a worn out 9 hole course called Bandon-Face Rock has reopened as Old Bandon Golf Links.
http://www.oldbandongolflinks.com/  They will have (repro) gutties and hickories available to play their par 32 course.
Should be a fun diversion.

Pete, just checked out the website to find that Troy Russel is the operator.  Fantastic!  Love the idea of the hickory club rentals.

I play a few hickory clubs once in a while and want to purchase a set from Louisville Golf for around $600-$800 for the intro set of 5 clubs. I hit the hickory just fine and find that it forces me to slow the swing down to ensure better contract with the ball.  Have not found that I score any differently.  I find that with what ever set of tees I play, score the same on average. Proves to me that golf is a mental game.

Troy

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here has actually hit Hickory clubs?
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2009, 02:52:03 PM »
Quick question.

Would you consider hickory shafted clubs made by a modern manufacturer--like Louisville Golf--to be in "the spirit" of playing with older clubs?  I'm looking to play a few courses with hickory club and don't want to be seen as cheating.

I, and through my site Hickorygolf.com, only support authentic clubs. So my opinion is a bit biased.
The repro/fakes do allow you to play your modern game and not experience golf of the era. ALL the ones produced have too much modern tech infused in there design. I had pushed for an approval process many years ago when this first came up but there was no way to enfoce it. The club designers can no more forget the tech they know while design their wares than you can forget your ideas about the game when you first try playing with them. Of course you will impress your modern knowledge on your play, that is a given.
IMO you might as well be playing a modern head with a hickory shaft stuck in it. And that is actually being done by one of the companies.
They force you into a "set" mentality that never really existed in that time. (It started to take shape in the mid 20's but didn't take hold until the 30's when it was almost entirely steel shaft).
It all but eliminates the opportunity to add a unique utility club or try a different head shaped version of any of those numbered irons.

Anyway, Pandora's box has been opened and the march is on to change all hickory events to repro/fake events. I don't believe there are many real club only events left.

Hope that answers your question.

ralph
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

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