[redanman]

Trying (For some unknown and now unrewarded reason) to read through the 9 page thread about NGLA and lefties (Long abandoned for a ridiculous pissing match and discussion of ANGC #13) I came across the most rational post by JakaB in recent memory.  

He was talking about hitting a well-tuned set of hickory shafts.  He stated that they were surprisingly efficient in moving the golf ball.  Someone else interjected the "1945 Spaulding vs. ProV1®" argument, but the fact remains that hickory shafted clubs are surprisiingly efficient at hitting the golf ball very useful distances with remarkable distance and trajectory control.

This is based solely on my persoanl experience (Cut short by my inability to tolerate the short, flat setup of the clubs that I was hitting that day, leading me to at least 3 weeks of nearly intolerable back pain because that is my back, not anything the clubs did), more than one can say about most of what is being defended on that thread to which I will never return. (I think i shall never again be so bored!)

Fact remains, Barney is RIGHT!

Who here has tried a set of hickiories, actually playing a round with them? (Mine was at Baltusrol Lower, from the regular tees, shooting mid nineties, only about a stroke a hole worse than average allowing for my aching back and its effect on my swing mechanics balancing the difference in yardage).  I don't think I'll try to assemble a set for myself to the tune of $2000 in this lifetime, but the next time I have a new low back, I think I'll take more than a few smart-asses money a time or two, I tell you.

[Bill Weber]

I played nine holes at Old Musselburgh with what were purported to be hickory shafts and gutta balls. I'm only skeptical because I read somewhere recently that some other wood was used in the past and claimed to be hickory.
I also have back problems and didn't experiance the problem that plagued you.
Would wonder though how it might adversely affect my swing, if used often, with my regular clubs due to by necessity becoming very wristy with the wooden shafts.
Great fun in any case and the history of the course coupled with the clubs is a fond memory.

[JakaB]

I only have about $400 invested in my complete set of playable hickories....including a beautiful leather bag that cost me $80.   I played most if not all winter using my regular clubs one day and the hickories the next...and this year has been the worst collage of result based golf of my life.   The part of me who tells the truth to myself says it's really not the hickories fault...but I don't always know if to believe that guy.

Give me a 700yd head start and some hickories and I will be my regular self everyday.

[Brad Klein]

Recently played two rounds weith hickories -thanks to provision by Ralph Livingston of a decently matched set. I didn't score particularly well, but hit the ball very nearly as long as with my regular steel irons and graphite shafts "woods." More importantly, playing those two rounds within a few weeks of each other was very helpful in focusing my attention on getting the ball on the clubface, and I ended up following those rounds with the best golf I've played all year.

You have to hit the woods low on the clubface and the irons very tight to the shaft; when struck with a modern golf ball, you get just about the same distance as comparably-lofted club. There is a lot of confusion about club translation - i.e. a niblick is stronger than a pitching wedge and a mashie is stronger than a 6-iron. So comparisons have to deal with the loft. In any case, it's a great way to hone your game and to experience ground game architecture.

[paul cowley]

...i have aquired a repro set off 3 spoons;driver,4 wood,8wood,...i driving iron[anything you want.pitching etc.].....and a spoon shaped putter[very good].....played a round at ballybunion old.all these 'play' clubs are between circa 1790 and 1870,with no aerial game period....i think i had two bogeys ,very interesting............need to reshaft one and would like to put a stronger shaft in another and try again....

[JohnV]

I played Oakhurst Links in West Virginia with their set of 4 clubs and a guttie.  The driver, niblick and putter were ok, but trying to hit the long iron was totally frustrating and I soon abandoned it.  The fairways there were about 1 to 1.5 inches high so perhaps it would have been easier on a more modern course.  Still lots of fun and I did have the honor of tieing Carol Semple Thompson that day.

[Paul_Daley]

G'day Redanman, I have a hit with hickory-shafted clubs once a year, and find it a fun experience. The first half of the round is a complete joke; going after "it" as one does, just cuts no ice. The discipline to wait just a tad longer for everything to catch up is usually beyond me. These old semi-warped shafts have so much "play" and variability, I take my hat off to anyone who has any semblence of control. Part of the mystery ride, is getting to know your set; each club reacts so very differently.

Three things golfers need to do before turning up their toes: play TOC and Prestwick; and have a round with hickory-shafted clubs. It helps to forget the score!!

[bg_in_rtp]

I played a round at Arbory Brae with Alfie Ward in January of this year.  We had a perfect Scottish day, 40 degrees and sideways rain.  While I was bundled up in GoreTex, Alfie caddied for me in the same wool coat and hat that he's shown wearing in the pictures on GCA.    

The two obvious differences I found were:
a) You need to swing quite a bit harder with the wooden clubs to get them airbourne.  I attribute this to the lack of loft and the fact that you've also got to drive through the small clump of dirt that you're using as a tee.
b) The flight of the gutty is considerably less predictable and less forgiving than the balls today.  This forces an increased level of concentration.

I'd recommend that if you're going to play with hickories and gutties that you also follow the rules of that time.  Today's rules are far more forgiving.  It's alot of fun to try and play a stimee against your opponent, as well as trying to play a shot out of "casual water" with a water club (the one with the hole in the face).

A couple of side notes:

1) I played Arbory Brae on the end of a weekend trip at Turnberry and Prestwick, where I'd gotten engaged to my wife on the steps of the Turnberry Hotel.  While she was literally turning a nice raspberry shade of blue while walking Arbory Brae in the wind and rain, she never went back into the clubhouse.  I'm hoping that's the beginning of her understanding of my obsession, and if so, she's off to a good start.

2) I recently spoke with Alfie, and while the Hickory Golf website is back up, he's still searching for some assistance in order to bring the course back into operation.  His passion for the course and the history that he's trying to preserve is still strong, so I'm hoping that he'll find good luck soon.  

[ChipOat]

Have played Oakhurst Links and hit current-day range balls with a Driver and a Mashie.

Most importantly, I have hit 100+ bunker shots with 2 different hickory-shafted Niblicks.  This is the basis for my strong belief that bunkers (especially greenside) need to be made deeper to retain/restore/create the shot values intended by the Golden Age architects in the pre-Sand Wedge/Lob Wedge world in which they built their masterpieces.

But I've covered that ground here already (a lot).

[JakaB]

Chipoat,

The two things that make playing hickories more difficult are the lack of high lofted wedges with bounce....and modern rubber grips.   I hate to use the excuse that I putt poorly with my beautiful Gene Sarazen Junior putter because I am sure I could do better with an old mallet if the cost was not out of hand.

The modern grip is the most highly underappreciated item in ones golf arsenal.

[Jeff_Lewis]

I played in a group with a professional hitting hickory shafted clubs from the 1930s. I would estimate he could hit the ball about 230 with the driver. He shot 75? on a 6500 yard golf course.  It's the ball guys, not the shafts, that is ruining this game.

[Tim_Weiman]

Redanman:

I have never played with Hickory clubs. However, a good friend of mine who knows Tom Watson tells me that Watson once described a round of golf played at Murifield with Hickory clubs as the most fun he ever had playing golf.

Apparently, Watson shot 73 in this casual round. I don't recall being told anything about the ball he used, but he did come away with some feeling that professional golf might be served by a requirement to go back to using such clubs.

[Rihc]

redanman

I played with hickories exclusively the first 10 years of my golfing life, starting with a cut off "set" when I was 7 or so.  I still have about 5 or 6 of the regular sized ones, two of which (an "anti-shank" club given to me by a guy I played with at Rye, and my great grandather's putter) I still use occasionally.  Both are very useful for putting off opponents (or even me, as some on this website can attest to)......

Tim

My recollection is that Watson and Crenshaw snuck out of Greywalls onto Muirfield the night after Watson's 1980 Open with some hickories and gutties but were chased off the course by Paddy Hanmer.  Maybe there was another time too, after Paddy went to that great Secretary's Office in the Sky.

[Darren_Kilfara]

I've never hit a Hickory club before, but I did have dinner the other evening at Gullane GC with Archie Baird (historian) and John Sherwood (golf memorabilia collector/dealer), both of whom play quite frequently with hickory clubs - the World Hickory Championships (or something like that) are apparently played at Gullane No. 3 every May, and there's a bit of a "tour" of events around the world (mostly in Britain) for hickory players. John tells me that he averages about 3-4 shots worse with hickories than with regular clubs - he's a four-handicapper with regular clubs, but I think he and some others actually keep a separate handicap for use with hickories. Anyway, you might be interested to know that they play all of their events with regular golf balls, not gutties or other period balls.

Cheers,
Darren

[bg_in_rtp]

Did they say why they don't play with balls from that period of time?  Is it just because of the difficulty of making/getting gutta percha, or are they trying to make a statement about which part of newer technology is causing more change in the game?

[Darren_Kilfara]

Brian, it's nothing sinister at all - the game is too difficult to be played with old balls on a regular basis, and (more importantly) old balls are at something of a premium. Most of these guys put gutties in display cases, not their golf bags...

Cheers,
Darren

[Norbert P]

 Hicks and Gut are a blast.  The swing is more fluid with the wrists and it seems to involve more grace as opposed to mechanical perfection.  (Theoretically speaking, of course.)

  Meeting and walking/talking golf with Alfie was worth more to me than playing the woodsticks and gutty though.  If I'd've played out there by myself it would have just been an interesting lab test.  But with him spiritedly and generously bounding along, it was truly a blessed day.  Thanks again Alfie.

 Sportsmen and philanthropists converge!  

[RSLivingston_III]

With regards to playing hickories try <www.hickorygolf.com>.
There were about 25 events on the US schedule this year. I just deleted all the "done" ones and am waiting to get dates for the next year. The British Golf Collectors have about that many events themselves. The event in Gullane hosted by Archie Baird is the Scottish Hickory Championship, a great event. In conjunction with it we created a hickory Ryder Cup event, the Hickory Grail, that held it's first US match last month at The Saint Andrews Golf Club in NY. It had been held at Kilspindie in 2000 & 2001. There is also now an annual hickory tournament at The Kingsley Club hosted by Fred Muller (pro at CD). Two days, 36 holes of gross score. No handicaps, no long drives, no closest to the pin. This one is the US Open of Hickories. You best have game if you come to this one. The next event is next month at World Golf Village in FL.
These tournaments all use 20th century clubs, 1900-1935. Oakhurst has an annual tournament also, 2003 being the sixth year. The difference being you are playing with circa 1880 equipment with a rubber replica of a gutty ball. A little too lively but the distance is about right. Most of the serious players there also use original restored equipment. It is kind of fun playing competitively with an 19th century longnose putter.
I have never really introduced myself on this site and this thread seems like the perfect time.
Ralph Livingston III
Member of the:
Highlands GC, 1916 Ross- Grand Rapids MI
Kingsley Club
Ross Society, Tillinghast Society, James Braid Society, British Golf Collectors, US Golf Collectors, Society of Hickory Golfers.
Have become a student of architecture over the last 8-10 years because of playing hickories. I do play them exclusively. Usually about an 8-9 handicap with them. One claim to fame is having loaned the clubs that were used for playing in the Legend of Bagger Vance.
As Bradley found out, you can learn more about the intent of the architects of classic era courses with these clubs. Most players find themselves playing a true ground game for the first time. Links golf with them is amazing.
Ralph

[Pete_Pittock]

Add me to those who have played with hickories and gutties, at Oakhurst. I will get my chance again at Bandon next month.
What used to be a worn out 9 hole course called Bandon-Face Rock has reopened as Old Bandon Golf Links.
http://www.oldbandongolflinks.com/  They will have (repro) gutties and hickories available to play their par 32 course.
Should be a fun diversion.

[Steve D]

I have a 10 club set of authentic hickories I've assembled.  2 woods, 7 irons and a putter.  Randy Jensen in Omaha is the best guy to buy from if you are interested in getting some.  I do play with the replica gutties and it is a blast.  The feel of the old clubs and the balls are something completely different from modern golf.  I do still play modern golf, but this season I intend to play more hickory golf than I did last season.  I usually score within a few strokes of my modern game and find myself playing completely different shots than I do with my modern game.  I can hit my hickory shafted driver about 230-240 yards but the short game is completely different.  the lack of bounce on the lofted clubs really makes the short game interesting.  I'm lucky enough to belong to a club that has 2 courses built before 1930 also, so that makes it fun to play the old courses with the hickories. 

With all the talk on this site of architecture and preserving the integrity of the game I would expect this forum to be loaded with hickory golfers.  I find it to be an incredibly fun way to play golf and I feel more in touch with the old courses when I play this way.  Its also fun to see peoples reactions when you show up with hickories and then to see their reaction when you win the match!!!

Steve

[Mike McGuire]

Steve

Tell me more about the replica gutties. A lot of hickory players use a Pro V1

[Steve D]

I buy them from Chris McIntryre who runs the playhickory.com website.  I have no idea how 'authentic' they are but they look like gutties and definitely feel different from the modern ball.  They cost about the same as a dozen ProVs.  They really complete the hickory experience.

I can't say enough good things about playing with hickories.  I'm sure that one day I will move over to 100% 'authentic' golf.  I'm not quite there yet, but I do intend to play a lot of hickory golf this summer.

Steve

[Steve D]

Mike, I just went to the playhickory website and it looks like Chris has got several replica balls he is selling now.  You might want to check it out.

Steve

[Forrest Richardson]

http://www.keepersofthegreen.org

The Keepers of the Green is a neat organization based in St. Andrews. Not only do members receive a set of hickories, but we play in tournaments throughout the year. The website has lots of information about the "set", which I can attest is both a challenge to master and also quite a departure from the 14 club norm.

At The Old Course last year I managed 180 yards (with regular balls) using the driving club...a sort of hockey-like wooden club with a leather insert that, according to some rumors, is cured in goat urine. Although I doubt this as fact.

While we are in a less-than-ideal economy, I suggest anyone with an extra stash of cash consider becoming a life member. I am not clear what the current amount is, but my guess is about $1000 USD. This entitles you to enter competitions, including the every-so-often reverse course day at St. Andrews Old Course.

[Roger Wolfe]

Played 9 holes... hickory shafts... gutta percha (sp?) balls... sand tees.  Oakhurst Links...
June 1998... White Sulphur Springs, WV.

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