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Jeff Schley

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Best playoff format for major championship?
« on: February 22, 2018, 09:06:27 AM »
After watching the hockey shootout win by the USA women it got me thinking which major championship playoff format is the best.

Masters - sudden death between 18,10 until a winner
US Open - 18 holes the next day
British - 4 hole aggregate, then sudden death
PGA - 3 hole aggregate, then sudden death

I can appreciate the purists point of view in that the US Open playoff format is what the tourney itself is, a grind! To stay mentally focused for yet another night and have a 1 on 1 or perhaps multiple opponents for yet another round is tough.  Having it the following day adds more pressure IMO and rewards the mentally tough player.

Masters is of the opinion let's get this thing over with and you can put pressure on your opponents if playing first as there is no tomorrow.  The short hitters have to be radar and put the pressure on the longer hitters, if the shorter guys miss the green they are screwed (Dimarco against Woods, Oosthuizen against Watson).

British - 4 holes and what always stands out to me is the Tom Watson near miss.  He was on such a high going into 18 but mentally lost it after the disappointing chip/putt to tie. Had it been a sudden death I think he could have stayed focused easier, however knowing 4 more holes and that he maybe was on borrowed time was too much.

PGA - 3 holes and I think the easiest of the formats.  You aren't killed by one bad hole, you don't' have to sleep on it overnight, and will most likely IMO identify the player playing the best over the course of the week.

As a fan I prefer sudden death.  I mean really read that SUDDEN, meaning without warning, DEATH, it's over!  That leads to excitement and not drawn out.

As a player I would prefer the 3 hole playoff as it is not dependent on any one shot, but I don't have to come back the next day and sleep on it.

Thoughts?
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Joe Schackman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 09:46:03 AM »
As a fan and player I enjoy the 3 & 4 hole formats of The PGA and The Open Championship.

I get the compelling drama of sudden death but it ends up feeling rushed in my mind. It can happen so quickly if one player makes a mistake. Giving a few holes means that players can stick to their game plan and weather small mistakes. I don't think the drama is diminished too much. Just drawn out a bit more.

They players have just withstood 72 holes of championship golf. It doesn't seem to fit with the character of tournament golf to then reset everything and boil it down to 1 or 2 swings.

Carl Rogers

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Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 09:46:35 AM »
Given the uniqueness and drama of Amen Corner, I like a 3 hole playoff starting at 11,then if tied continue to 14 & etc in Sudden Death
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 09:48:39 AM »
No one wanted to see Larry Mize dump it in the water on 12.

Carson Pilcher

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Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 10:03:05 AM »
Given the uniqueness and drama of Amen Corner, I like a 3 hole playoff starting at 11,then if tied continue to 14 & etc in Sudden Death


I have never thought of this scenario, but it is really interesting!!

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 10:07:27 AM »
I vote Open Championship format. ( 4 hole aggregate, then sudden death) They can pull off the extended same day play-off as they have the luxury of 9:30 pm sunsets.  I also respect the 18 hole format but it's quite the buzz kill.
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 10:15:06 AM »
Given the uniqueness and drama of Amen Corner, I like a 3 hole playoff starting at 11,then if tied continue to 14 & etc in Sudden Death


Carl-I like the format but I think 13,14,15 might be more compelling. I like the sudden death option starting at 16. Take your chances firing at the flag or not.....

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 10:17:06 AM »
I think The Masters should decide a tie at the end of regulation with a putting contest on the practice green....
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jim Nugent

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Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 10:22:27 AM »
I think The Masters should decide a tie at the end of regulation with a putting contest on the practice green....

Ha ha.  Especially if they build a St. Andrews Ladies Putting Club type green. 

I definitely don't like the 18 hole playoff.  Sudden death is too sudden for my taste.  So either the three-hole or four-hole playoff, that same day.  If they're still tied, then sudden death. 

BHoover

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Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 10:36:01 AM »
I like that each major has its own playoff format.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2018, 12:18:50 PM »
I actually prefer watching sudden death.  But if I were a player I'd insist on the Open or PGA format.  Certain holes favor certain players so the choice of which one comes first is too impactful.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 01:19:10 PM »
I think The Masters should decide a tie at the end of regulation with a putting contest on the practice green....

Ha ha.  Especially if they build a St. Andrews Ladies Putting Club type green. 

I definitely don't like the 18 hole playoff.  Sudden death is too sudden for my taste.  So either the three-hole or four-hole playoff, that same day.  If they're still tied, then sudden death.


Happy to find a rare point of disagreement with Mr. Jim... :)


Me, I prefer sudden death or 18 the next day. 3 or 4 just feels too contrived to me. Reminds me of the joke overtimes in college football, which don't actually resemble the game, or hockey or soccer going to shootouts. Play the game, one way or another (immediate or full). Don't play some facsimile thereof...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2018, 01:25:36 PM »
No playoffs, use countback. In a tie, best last round wins. If still a tie, best last 9-holes wins, then best last-6 wins, then best last-3, then last-hole, then flip a coin so everyone who is still awake can go home or turn the TV onto another channel. :)
atb

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2018, 01:57:33 PM »
I like that each major has its own playoff format.
I'm in this boat.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 02:59:28 PM »
No playoffs, use countback. In a tie, best last round wins. If still a tie, best last 9-holes wins, then best last-6 wins, then best last-3, then last-hole, then flip a coin so everyone who is still awake can go home or turn the TV onto another channel. :)
atb
I can’t tell if this is serious.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2018, 03:02:22 PM »
No one wanted to see Larry Mize dump it in the water on 12.


Norman, maybe.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 07:09:15 PM »
Sudden death.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 08:03:42 PM »
I like the 3 hole playoff. I can’t help but think of Tiger vs Bob May in 2000. I think 4 holes is a little too long.


I think a sudden death starting on a par 3 is terrible. 2008 Players, Sergio vs Paul Goydos, the sudden death playoff started on 17 and Goydos hit a good shot that caught a gust of wind and went into the water. If they started on 18 and a player hits a great drive and great second on that tough hole, they are a much more deserving champion than the guy who hits a good wedge shot on 17 and doesn’t catch a gust of wind.

Ted Sirbaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 09:04:07 PM »

I think a sudden death starting on a par 3 is terrible. 2008 Players, Sergio vs Paul Goydos, the sudden death playoff started on 17 and Goydos hit a good shot that caught a gust of wind and went into the water. If they started on 18 and a player hits a great drive and great second on that tough hole, they are a much more deserving champion than the guy who hits a good wedge shot on 17 and doesn’t catch a gust of wind.


Eric,


I agree with you on that, especially starting on a hole like 17 where it can be over immediately. They were smart to change the format to 16-18, and then back to 17 if they're still tied after the 3 holes. I think that's a perfect setup- the 2015 playoff with Fowler, Kisner and Sergio couldn't have been more exciting.

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2018, 01:15:07 AM »
The traditionalist in me nudges me that anything besides a full medal round is contrived...


Yet the Norman-Zoeller playoff in 1984 (my first major attended) was an anti-climatic downer of the first degree, it was almost over after #2, when Norman made a careless double and Zoeller made his second birdie out the gate (**Norman birdied #1 as well, and for 20 minutes you thought this is going to be legendary...part of the anti-climax at #2). I know "better" playofffs are in the memory bank too, but I do kinda want it decided on the terms of the four days...the mental atmosphere and playing conditions of a final round field event cant be replicated on a Monday morning...the "energy" of it ought to be maintained.


I chorus the sentiments that find pleasure in each major having a different scheme...


So being its all a contrivance after one decides that 18 holes the next day is somehow deficient, no reason not to make my own contrivances for the majors.


Masters:
(Start Final Round 45 minutes earlier - slated for ending at 6:00/Green Jacket at 6:15)
Restore Previous Sudden Death Sequence (1976 - 2003) -


In the Sudden Death era, it just doesn't feel right to not have #11 in play, with that zesty chance to see #12 reached. Even with an earlier start, daylight down 15/16 may not permit play past 14...then wrinkle - go to 18, repeated...


PGA:
3 hole match (works for multiple players, who would essentially be playing a round robin)...any ties...advance to sudden death.


Not only do I wish to pay some homage to the only major to have a match play foundation, I also like the idea that one great shot or one horrible one (the appeal/disdain of Sudden Death) doesn't settle it, and that gambling and conservative strategies will blossom according to players, styles, the holes used, and the fortune of each result.  I can envision a lot of added tension, right from the first shot...moreso when 3+ players involved. In that scenario, each hole is worth a point, 1/2 pt if halved, total points earned in each match decides winner...any ties go to sudden death.


US Open:
If any tie, 5th round is played with remaining field cut in half (30+ties)...then Sudden Death.

Wouldn't this be a gas? If there is a tie at the top, we play another 18 on Monday, but with the field cut in half again to 30 plus ties...and keep adding up the (now) 90 hole score...yes it will cause a salient in historical stats, but easily understood and processed, just as the 9 hole 12 hole, 36 hole early iterations of majors, and the PGA match play schism... Now that is Monday golf that might live up to snuff...perfectly in keeping with the grinding character of the event.


Open Championship
Retain 4-hole aggregate (first used in 1989) -


Sure, I'd love to be a traditionalist and say 36 holes (as it was until 1963) or think up some funky homage to the oldest "12 hole" rounds of Prestwick in 1860, but I admit this format seems equitable as it avoids sudden death fortune, doesn't permit a gross error without cost, and is compact enough to maintain tension. .. Plus the Open rota courses layouts seem to fit the ready practical flow of four good holes going out and back (Though even as good as 1,2, 17 and 18 are at TOC I'd love to see it on 8-11 in the Loop[!])


cheers  vk



"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2018, 01:40:57 AM »

You need to look at the question from four vantage points.  Spectators, Players. Broadcasting. Viewers.
The spectators would take anything except an 18 (or more) hole playoff the next day.
Broadcasting would like something that fits into a schedule slot. Masters and PGA best, The Open and the US Open last. Preempting sucks, remember Heidi.
Players I think would opt for the US Open format, both expecting that they would prevail.
Viewers would prefer anything except the US Open format as long as they remembered to add two or three hours on their TIVO.
The vagaries of the Masters, PGA and Open formats change drastically between a two person and multiple player playoffs.

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2018, 09:22:11 AM »

... I do kinda want it decided on the terms of the four days...the mental atmosphere and playing conditions of a final round field event cant be replicated on a Monday morning...the "energy" of it ought to be maintained.


That's my thinking too, thanks for putting it in words. 

Joe Schackman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2018, 11:19:53 AM »
A little off topic but got me thinking that it has been a long time since we last had a US Open playoff (2008 - Tiger vs Rocco).

In that time there have been 8 playoffs in the other majors:

Masters: 2009 (Cabrera), 2012 (Bubba), 2013 (Scott), 2017 (Sergio)
Open Champ: 2009 (Cink), 2015 (Z. Johnson)
PGA: 2010 (Kaymer), 2011 (Keegan)

Not sure it can really be chalked up to much of anything other than normal variance but maybe the traditional penal nature of US Open courses helps separate players slightly more than the other majors? Or the larger cut of the US just cuts down on the amount of players who can force a playoff?

But most likely just normal variance.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2018, 01:25:06 PM »
I like that each major has its own playoff format.
I'm in this boat.


I agree as well.


If I had to pick one sudden death makes the most sense.
Imagine the anticlimacticness of the old 36 hole playoffs-I think one went 36, then 36 again.
Of course they probably played the 36 faster than they play 18 now that "we":( is so in vogue
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best playoff format for major championship?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2018, 03:49:57 PM »
Sudden Victory.


Should be the same in football; none of this PK nonsense.  Take off a player or 2 like in ice hockey in extra time (allow an additional sub or 2 for fresh legs) at the end of regulation to open up the pitch and next goal wins...........   

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